From garymoncrieff at googlemail.com Sat Apr 5 10:33:08 2008 From: garymoncrieff at googlemail.com (Gary Moncrieff) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 15:33:08 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin Message-ID: Hi Guys Finnally got 1.5 to install today on a different server, and was palying with the new [staticpage_content] autotag. When reading the changelog I thought this would solve a headache I would be facing. Is there a limitation on using this new tag in a staticpgae? as it will only display the last instance called. So lets say you call this 6 times to include 6 different pages within a main index page, [header, left block 1, left block 2, main block, right block and footer] it will only display the last declaration, in this instance the footer, Trying to achieve in a cheeky way, something similar to the php include function. Is this the way this function has been designed or is it a bug? Mny thanks PS 1.5 is looking very nice, if I find time I will do a small preview and post it on the forums. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirk at haun-online.de Sun Apr 6 12:00:52 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:00:52 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080406160052.1149528318@smtp.haun-online.de> Gary Moncrieff wrote: >So lets say you call this 6 times to include 6 different pages within a main >index page, [header, left block 1, left block 2, main block, right block and >footer] it will only display the last declaration, in this instance the >footer, Trying to achieve in a cheeky way, something similar to the php >include function. Sorry, can you explain what you're trying to do there? I'm not sure I understand your setup. bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/accu/ From dirk at haun-online.de Sun Apr 6 12:26:32 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:26:32 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080406162632.554557682@smtp.haun-online.de> Gary Moncrieff wrote: >Is there a limitation on using this new tag in a staticpgae? as it will only >display the last instance called. It replaces the entire content of the caller with that of the static page. Not sure if that's a good idea (or how it was intended to work). It also has a small problem with recursive calls but I have a fix for that ... bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://spam.tinyweb.net/ From garymoncrieff at googlemail.com Sun Apr 6 12:20:05 2008 From: garymoncrieff at googlemail.com (Gary Moncrieff) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 17:20:05 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: <20080406160052.1149528318@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080406160052.1149528318@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: Hi Dirk Basiclaly I am trying to create like a simple catalogue of products, it will be continually updated with new vendors categories etc. So my plan was to make it up of different files as I dont really understand much php to do a plugin. So lets say I have alist of vendors in a right box, instead of updated every page, if I done the main elements as include files it leaves it so much simplier. This would also give me a degree of allowing vendors to edit their pages as such. But upon testing this with the new staticpage_content tag I found it would only allows one staticpage to be included, not multiple. Hope that makes sense, been on wine most of today lol Regards On 06/04/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: > > Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > >So lets say you call this 6 times to include 6 different pages within a > main > >index page, [header, left block 1, left block 2, main block, right block > and > >footer] it will only display the last declaration, in this instance the > >footer, Trying to achieve in a cheeky way, something similar to the php > >include function. > > Sorry, can you explain what you're trying to do there? I'm not sure I > understand your setup. > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.haun-online.de/accu/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garymoncrieff at googlemail.com Sun Apr 6 12:44:00 2008 From: garymoncrieff at googlemail.com (Gary Moncrieff) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 17:44:00 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: <20080406162632.554557682@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080406162632.554557682@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: Hi Dirk If it was designed to work like the php include function, it would mean users could create basic sites with differnet blocks/layouts depending on the page in geeklog easily, then they wont need to worry about security or what not either. Couple this with the comments now added to staticpage and it could be a very useful way to handle this. Regards On 06/04/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: > > Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > >Is there a limitation on using this new tag in a staticpgae? as it will > only > >display the last instance called. > > It replaces the entire content of the caller with that of the static > page. Not sure if that's a good idea (or how it was intended to work). > > It also has a small problem with recursive calls but I have a fix for that > ... > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.haun-online.de/ > http://spam.tinyweb.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garymoncrieff at googlemail.com Sun Apr 6 13:06:28 2008 From: garymoncrieff at googlemail.com (Gary Moncrieff) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:06:28 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20080406162632.554557682@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: Another thing, if you select the option to forward to page in the admin panel for staticpages you just get the error Access Denied Access to this page is denied. Either the page has been moved/removed or you do not have sufficient permissions. Regards On 06/04/2008, Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > Hi Dirk > > If it was designed to work like the php include function, it would mean > users could create basic sites with differnet blocks/layouts depending on > the page in geeklog easily, then they wont need to worry about security or > what not either. > > Couple this with the comments now added to staticpage and it could be a > very useful way to handle this. > > Regards > > > On 06/04/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: > > > > Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > > > >Is there a limitation on using this new tag in a staticpgae? as it will > > only > > >display the last instance called. > > > > It replaces the entire content of the caller with that of the static > > page. Not sure if that's a good idea (or how it was intended to work). > > > > It also has a small problem with recursive calls but I have a fix for > > that ... > > > > bye, Dirk > > > > > > -- > > http://www.haun-online.de/ > > http://spam.tinyweb.net/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garymoncrieff at googlemail.com Sun Apr 6 13:07:14 2008 From: garymoncrieff at googlemail.com (Gary Moncrieff) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:07:14 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20080406162632.554557682@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: Sorry sent that before adding after saving the page you get that error. On 06/04/2008, Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > Another thing, if you select the option to forward to page in the admin > panel for staticpages you just get the error > > Access Denied > Access to this page is denied. Either the page has been moved/removed or > you do not have sufficient permissions. > > Regards > > > > On 06/04/2008, Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > > > Hi Dirk > > > > If it was designed to work like the php include function, it would mean > > users could create basic sites with differnet blocks/layouts depending on > > the page in geeklog easily, then they wont need to worry about security or > > what not either. > > > > Couple this with the comments now added to staticpage and it could be a > > very useful way to handle this. > > > > Regards > > > > > > On 06/04/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: > > > > > > Gary Moncrieff wrote: > > > > > > >Is there a limitation on using this new tag in a staticpgae? as it > > > will only > > > >display the last instance called. > > > > > > It replaces the entire content of the caller with that of the static > > > page. Not sure if that's a good idea (or how it was intended to work). > > > > > > It also has a small problem with recursive calls but I have a fix for > > > that ... > > > > > > bye, Dirk > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.haun-online.de/ > > > http://spam.tinyweb.net/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirk at haun-online.de Sun Apr 6 13:10:01 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:10:01 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] 1.5 Staticpage Plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20080406160052.1149528318@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <20080406171001.1038814937@smtp.haun-online.de> Gary Moncrieff wrote: >But upon testing this with the new staticpage_content tag I found it would >only allows one staticpage to be included, not multiple. As I said: It replaces the entire content with that of the "included" static page. Usually, only the autotags themselves (i.e. everything between the square brackets + the brackets) will be replaced. I wonder if we should change that. bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://spam.tinyweb.net/ From tony at tonybibbs.com Tue Apr 8 21:13:41 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... --Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devel at portalparts.com Tue Apr 8 21:31:13 2008 From: devel at portalparts.com (Blaine Lang) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:31:13 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Tony, I'm pleased to see this topic come up again. As you know I've raised it a few times before as Nextide we are constantly faced with the Name issue. It's one reason we finally released Nexpro albeit it includes a number of complex plugins but it now means we don't have to use the words Geeklog most of the time. IMHO, "Content Management System" does not really describe what Geeklog is either but to a non-technical person it's probably easier to get some idea of that GL is as apposed to calling it a Application Framework that includes a number of applications like a content management system. Blaine Tony Bibbs wrote: > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > question. > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net > about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a > standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what > features are most important to them, areas of improvement and > whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I > could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of > our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I > don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS > areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In > fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" > to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that > feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and > allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with > leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go > crawl under a rock now... > > --Tony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From joe at ThrowingDice.com Tue Apr 8 21:39:02 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:39:02 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0JZ1000ZNB99IG61@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> At 09:13 PM 4/8/2008, Tony Bibbs wrote: >Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. Is this just general mail you receive, an ongoing concern, or something on IRC recently? ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From tony at tonybibbs.com Tue Apr 8 21:55:24 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <713137.99169.qm@web702.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, that was a post (where escapes me) but the jist was that GL seemed dead given the articles were so old. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Joe Mucchiello To: Geeklog Development Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 8:39:02 PM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... At 09:13 PM 4/8/2008, Tony Bibbs wrote: >Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. Is this just general mail you receive, an ongoing concern, or something on IRC recently? ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From tony at tonybibbs.com Tue Apr 8 22:03:13 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <190412.56657.qm@web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone who would you pick: Geeklog Joomla Drupal PHPNuke Wordpress That's my only point. Feature for feature we not far behind...FWIW I did have my first experience installing wordpress and while the installation and features were nice, the code would having us all appreciating the 1.x codebase a lot more. Dirk when you get a minute I'd be interested to hear your take. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Blaine Lang To: Geeklog Development Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 8:31:13 PM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Tony, I'm pleased to see this topic come up again. As you know I've raised it a few times before as Nextide we are constantly faced with the Name issue. It's one reason we finally released Nexpro albeit it includes a number of complex plugins but it now means we don't have to use the words Geeklog most of the time. IMHO, "Content Management System" does not really describe what Geeklog is either but to a non-technical person it's probably easier to get some idea of that GL is as apposed to calling it a Application Framework that includes a number of applications like a content management system. Blaine Tony Bibbs wrote: > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > question. > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net > about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a > standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what > features are most important to them, areas of improvement and > whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I > could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of > our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I > don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS > areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In > fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" > to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that > feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and > allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with > leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go > crawl under a rock now... > > --Tony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From info at heatherengineering.com Tue Apr 8 22:41:30 2008 From: info at heatherengineering.com (Euan McKay) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:30 +0900 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <190412.56657.qm@web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <190412.56657.qm@web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've thought for some time that the name was a bit of a problem. http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=21197 Whenever I explain Geeklog to someone, I always gloss over the name (or omit it entirely). > Glue :-) > Joomla > Drupal > PHPNuke > Wordpress Euan. On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone who would you pick: > > Geeklog > Joomla > Drupal > PHPNuke > Wordpress > > That's my only point. Feature for feature we not far behind...FWIW I did have my first experience installing wordpress and while the installation and features were nice, the code would having us all appreciating the 1.x codebase a lot more. Dirk when you get a minute I'd be interested to hear your take. > > --Tony > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Blaine Lang > To: Geeklog Development > > Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 8:31:13 PM > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > > > Tony, > > I'm pleased to see this topic come up again. As you know I've raised it > a few times before as Nextide we are constantly faced with the Name > issue. It's one reason we finally released Nexpro albeit it includes a > number of complex plugins but it now means we don't have to use the > words Geeklog most of the time. > > IMHO, "Content Management System" does not really describe what Geeklog > is either but to a non-technical person it's probably easier to get some > idea of that GL is as apposed to calling it a Application Framework that > includes a number of applications like a content management system. > > Blaine > > > Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > > question. > > > > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net > > about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a > > standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what > > features are most important to them, areas of improvement and > > whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I > > could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of > > our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I > > don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS > > areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In > > fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" > > to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that > > feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and > > allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with > > leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go > > crawl under a rock now... > > > > --Tony > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From mjervis at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 02:28:16 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:28:16 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <190412.56657.qm@web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <190412.56657.qm@web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804082328t145ae90ai7ac9011c44a7f9a8@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone who would you pick: > > Geeklog > Joomla > Drupal > PHPNuke > Wordpress Me, I'd go on name alone: PHPNuke Geeklog Drupal Joomla Wordpress And in reality I went: PHPNuke Geeklog Drupal Geeklog Changing the name /might/ be good, but you have to consider what you're re-branding for. Are you re-branding to sell a platform to build sites (glue as Euan suggested?) or to sell to the Wordpress/Drupal style market where they just want a ready to go platform. i.e. developers or (I struggle to find the right word here, non-technical site owners?) From lakechang at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 03:19:45 2008 From: lakechang at gmail.com (Lake Chang) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:19:45 +0800 Subject: [geeklog-devel] geeklog-devel Digest, Vol 14, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I really feel sorry to see the word "dead" so many times in this discussion as a gSoC 2008 student. In my opinion GL is very good, steady and easy to use, having a passionate deploying team. We can do it better, just as what google has done to her products. So we need not to feel discouraged. Here are my humble opinions about changing the name. Firstly, name is very very important. No one want to feel somewhat humble mentioning the product she/he uses. The jocular names do fit a small part of people, but are not suitable for a widely used product. So I support the decision to pick a name for GL. Secondly, I think we have to keep the name "Geeklog" for some time even we have decided to replace it, if we do not want to miss some coming users. There can be a period of time that Geek log has more than one names. >>Me, I'd go on name alone: >> >>PHPNuke >>Geeklog >>Drupal >>Joomla >>Wordpress >> >>And in reality I went: >> >>PHPNuke >>Geeklog >>Drupal >>Geeklog IMHO these two names go well: Wordpress PHPNuke Sincerely yours, Lei ZHANG 2008/4/9 : > Send geeklog-devel mailing list submissions to > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > geeklog-devel-request at lists.geeklog.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > geeklog-devel-owner at lists.geeklog.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of geeklog-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Perception is everything... (Tony Bibbs) > 2. Re: Perception is everything... (Blaine Lang) > 3. Re: Perception is everything... (Joe Mucchiello) > 4. Re: Perception is everything... (Tony Bibbs) > 5. Re: Perception is everything... (Tony Bibbs) > 6. Re: Perception is everything... (Euan McKay) > 7. Re: Perception is everything... (Michael Jervis) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:13:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tony Bibbs > Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: Geeklog Development > Message-ID: <871949.57171.qm at web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > question. > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.netabout successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form > asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most > important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a > half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can > dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't > doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I > have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the > point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks > I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd > like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on > picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be > worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... > > --Tony > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/attachments/20080408/c23ee336/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:31:13 -0400 > From: Blaine Lang > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: Geeklog Development > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Tony, > > I'm pleased to see this topic come up again. As you know I've raised it > a few times before as Nextide we are constantly faced with the Name > issue. It's one reason we finally released Nexpro albeit it includes a > number of complex plugins but it now means we don't have to use the > words Geeklog most of the time. > > IMHO, "Content Management System" does not really describe what Geeklog > is either but to a non-technical person it's probably easier to get some > idea of that GL is as apposed to calling it a Application Framework that > includes a number of applications like a content management system. > > Blaine > > Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > > question. > > > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net > > about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a > > standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what > > features are most important to them, areas of improvement and > > whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I > > could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of > > our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I > > don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS > > areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In > > fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" > > to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that > > feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and > > allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with > > leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go > > crawl under a rock now... > > > > --Tony > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:39:02 -0400 > From: Joe Mucchiello > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: Geeklog Development > Message-ID: <0JZ1000ZNB99IG61 at mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > At 09:13 PM 4/8/2008, Tony Bibbs wrote: > >Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > question. > > Is this just general mail you receive, an ongoing concern, or > something on IRC recently? > > ---- > Joe Mucchiello > Throwing Dice Games > http://www.throwingdice.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:55:24 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tony Bibbs > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: Geeklog Development > Message-ID: <713137.99169.qm at web702.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Sorry, that was a post (where escapes me) but the jist was that GL seemed > dead given the articles were so old. > > --Tony > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Joe Mucchiello > To: Geeklog Development > Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 8:39:02 PM > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > > At 09:13 PM 4/8/2008, Tony Bibbs wrote: > >Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > question. > > Is this just general mail you receive, an ongoing concern, or > something on IRC recently? > > ---- > Joe Mucchiello > Throwing Dice Games > http://www.throwingdice.com > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:03:13 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tony Bibbs > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: Geeklog Development > Message-ID: <190412.56657.qm at web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. > I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone > who would you pick: > > Geeklog > Joomla > Drupal > PHPNuke > Wordpress > > That's my only point. Feature for feature we not far behind...FWIW I did > have my first experience installing wordpress and while the installation and > features were nice, the code would having us all appreciating the 1.x > codebase a lot more. Dirk when you get a minute I'd be interested to hear > your take. > > --Tony > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Blaine Lang > To: Geeklog Development > Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 8:31:13 PM > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > > Tony, > > I'm pleased to see this topic come up again. As you know I've raised it > a few times before as Nextide we are constantly faced with the Name > issue. It's one reason we finally released Nexpro albeit it includes a > number of complex plugins but it now means we don't have to use the > words Geeklog most of the time. > > IMHO, "Content Management System" does not really describe what Geeklog > is either but to a non-technical person it's probably easier to get some > idea of that GL is as apposed to calling it a Application Framework that > includes a number of applications like a content management system. > > Blaine > > Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > > question. > > > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net > > about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a > > standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what > > features are most important to them, areas of improvement and > > whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I > > could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of > > our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I > > don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS > > areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In > > fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" > > to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that > > feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and > > allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with > > leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go > > crawl under a rock now... > > > > --Tony > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:30 +0900 > From: "Euan McKay" > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: "Geeklog Development" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I've thought for some time that the name was a bit of a problem. > > http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=21197 > > Whenever I explain Geeklog to someone, I always gloss over the name > (or omit it entirely). > > > Glue :-) > > Joomla > > Drupal > > PHPNuke > > Wordpress > > Euan. > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. > I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone > who would you pick: > > > > Geeklog > > Joomla > > Drupal > > PHPNuke > > Wordpress > > > > That's my only point. Feature for feature we not far behind...FWIW I > did have my first experience installing wordpress and while the installation > and features were nice, the code would having us all appreciating the 1.x > codebase a lot more. Dirk when you get a minute I'd be interested to hear > your take. > > > > --Tony > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Blaine Lang > > To: Geeklog Development > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 8:31:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > > > > > > Tony, > > > > I'm pleased to see this topic come up again. As you know I've raised it > > a few times before as Nextide we are constantly faced with the Name > > issue. It's one reason we finally released Nexpro albeit it includes a > > number of complex plugins but it now means we don't have to use the > > words Geeklog most of the time. > > > > IMHO, "Content Management System" does not really describe what Geeklog > > is either but to a non-technical person it's probably easier to get > some > > idea of that GL is as apposed to calling it a Application Framework > that > > includes a number of applications like a content management system. > > > > Blaine > > > > > > Tony Bibbs wrote: > > > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > > > question. > > > > > > > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net > > > about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a > > > standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what > > > features are most important to them, areas of improvement and > > > whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I > > > could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of > > > our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > > > > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I > > > don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS > > > areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In > > > fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" > > > to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one > that > > > feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and > > > allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with > > > leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go > > > crawl under a rock now... > > > > > > --Tony > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:28:16 +0100 > From: "Michael Jervis" > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: "Geeklog Development" > Message-ID: > <7b42e7470804082328t145ae90ai7ac9011c44a7f9a8 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. > I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone > who would you pick: > > > > Geeklog > > Joomla > > Drupal > > PHPNuke > > Wordpress > > Me, I'd go on name alone: > > PHPNuke > Geeklog > Drupal > Joomla > Wordpress > > And in reality I went: > > PHPNuke > Geeklog > Drupal > Geeklog > > Changing the name /might/ be good, but you have to consider what > you're re-branding for. Are you re-branding to sell a platform to > build sites (glue as Euan suggested?) or to sell to the > Wordpress/Drupal style market where they just want a ready to go > platform. i.e. developers or (I struggle to find the right word here, > non-technical site owners?) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > End of geeklog-devel Digest, Vol 14, Issue 5 > ******************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trinity93 at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 07:37:04 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:37:04 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804082328t145ae90ai7ac9011c44a7f9a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <190412.56657.qm@web701.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7b42e7470804082328t145ae90ai7ac9011c44a7f9a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think a name change would be an excellent idea. The name Geeklog dose not promote the robustness or flexibility of the code base. If we wish to maintain and increase interested developers and end users to this project we have to have a name that doesn't limit, in the minds of those who encounter it, what the software in question is capable of. Geeklog to me would be fine if the code base was focused around single author blogging, We all know this is not what we have before us anymore. Geeklog has blossomed into something much more than a simple web blog script. Some of the plugins and add-ons I have seen in development are more geared to commerce, community building, project management, and information retrieval. Work is being done on creating plugins that add social networking features, e-commerce, and document/media management. Developers are using Geeklog to create sites for both "for profit" and "non profit" use as well as personal use. So here is an idea....... I remember that at one time, I suggested making the story/article stuff a separate plug in. and calling this a web site/application/portal development framework. To most people in the industry the word CMS means such a thing. If the story/articles plugin was called Geeklog but the core framework something else I think it would make more sense. I think it would be a bad decision to abandon the familiarity of the geeklog brand If I thought it would benefit the community and the community was receptive to this idea, I would allow the use of a brand name I had come up with for creating a some what commercial website oriented version of geeklog. The brand name i was planing on using was Slackdog. I still plan on using the name for my commercial consulting work as in i own slackdog.com. But if you were to register slackdog.org and use it for the core framework site, my marketing endeavors would trickle down and help promote the project. quite a few open source projects have a commercial entity offering for fee support and customization services attached to them. I would be willing to contribute some % of profits to the support of the open source project as well and entertain partnering with other core dev's on my business venture. Wouldent it be nice if the core devs got paid to work on the code full time? I know this might at first sound self serving but i am just trying to help and throw ideas around. If you think this is a bad idea i would be interested in knowing the reasons and get an idea of what everyone would like to see. - Trinity On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Michael Jervis wrote: > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. > I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone > who would you pick: > > > > Geeklog > > Joomla > > Drupal > > PHPNuke > > Wordpress > > Me, I'd go on name alone: > > PHPNuke > Geeklog > Drupal > Joomla > Wordpress > > And in reality I went: > > PHPNuke > Geeklog > Drupal > Geeklog > > Changing the name /might/ be good, but you have to consider what > you're re-branding for. Are you re-branding to sell a platform to > build sites (glue as Euan suggested?) or to sell to the > Wordpress/Drupal style market where they just want a ready to go > platform. i.e. developers or (I struggle to find the right word here, > non-technical site owners?) > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Wed Apr 9 08:17:19 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:17:19 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269C9B@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> What about paying out a bounty to one lucky individual who suggests an alternative/new name for Geeklog? Run it like a contest. Although the bounty paid isn't HUGE, its sure better than $0. Create some buzz in the open source community and perhaps revitalize the Geeklog core base of users to see that GL is not dead and that its continually moving forward. just my $0.02 worth. On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Michael Jervis wrote: On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a name. I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name alone who would you pick: > > Geeklog > Joomla > Drupal > PHPNuke > Wordpress Me, I'd go on name alone: PHPNuke Geeklog Drupal Joomla Wordpress And in reality I went: PHPNuke Geeklog Drupal Geeklog Changing the name /might/ be good, but you have to consider what you're re-branding for. Are you re-branding to sell a platform to build sites (glue as Euan suggested?) or to sell to the Wordpress/Drupal style market where they just want a ready to go platform. i.e. developers or (I struggle to find the right word here, non-technical site owners?) _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirk at haun-online.de Wed Apr 9 08:45:37 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:45:37 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Tony Bibbs wrote: > Dirk when you get a minute I'd be interested to hear your take. "You _can_ say geeks now, Mom." (from "Microserfs" by Douglas Coupland, 1995) It may be a language issue, but I never had a problem over here "selling" Geeklog. If anything, the name was considered a bit bland and non-descriptive, but not "offensive". The actual issue that the "dead" post was about, though, is our lack of visible progress. That's also something we've discussed before: There is a lot going on, but it's happening behind the scenes and if you don't lurk on geeklog-devel, you'll never hear of it until, suddenly, a new release appears out of thin air (or so it would seem). In fact, we did make the conscious decision to move things off of the geeklog.net front page and into the forums. But now that we only have new stories up every now and then, it gives the impression of not being very active. Having said that, I think we should actually take that one step further and remove the news articles almost entirely. Say, let's keep the featured story and the forum block and fill the rest with more static content. A bit more like e.g. wordpress.org. That would avoid the backlog of outdated articles and actual changes would be more visible. Too bad we don't have a lot of associated sites any more or I would bring up the idea of running a Planet (in parallel or inside of Geeklog) again. Or at least include an RSS feed from somewhere. bye, Dirk From busheywp at clarkson.edu Wed Apr 9 10:24:05 2008 From: busheywp at clarkson.edu (William P. Bushey) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:24:05 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: May I put my 2 cents in? As a person who has just discovered Geeklog I did find the name to be very misleading. When I first heard of Geeklog I figured it was a program to assist in team coding, perhaps a code versioning system with chat support and logging. If I may be so bold as to suggest a different name, based on the broad website platform that Geeklog really is, perhaps a spinoff of Microsoft's .Net name would work. How about .Site or Dot Site (since punctuation in a name can be a hassle .) -Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bibbs [mailto:tony at tonybibbs.com] Sent: Tue 4/8/2008 9:13 PM To: Geeklog Development Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... --Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mevans at ecsnet.com Wed Apr 9 10:39:11 2008 From: mevans at ecsnet.com (Mark R. Evans) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:39:11 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> Generally a re-branding is something that is done to support a much larger effort, a new focus or a new direction. To re-brand or rename just for the sake of a change is, in my opinion, a large effort with very little benefit. Cost and effort are high, not to mention, the limitation of domain names to choose from... "What's in a name? that which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet;" Geeklog is what it is. If there is a perception that it is dead then I would address that perception directly. Why is it perceived to be dead? Lack of releases? Lack of documentation? Lack of a growing developer base? Lack of direction? Lack of communication? Lack of themes? Lack of plugins? Lack of community? I won't offer any answers to this question, that I'll leave to the core team to figure out. My only advice is to understand why there is a negative perception and address those issues directly. Solve the identify crisis that is Geeklog. Define what it is and standardize on that definition. With a little effort you can find Geeklog defined as 3 distinct tools, a blog, a CMS and an application development framework. It is all of those, but how do you summarize this into something that can be the center or focus of a marketing theme? Dirk summed it up well in his Using Geeklog as an Application Development Framework presentation; Geeklog is; An application to manage dynamic web content. Rally around that statement, build on it and publicize it. Changing the name, in my opinion, would simply be a distraction from real work that needs to be done (release 1.5, write documentation, figure out how to put up a tracker, clean up the downloads area on geeklog.net, update the developer tools; universal toolkit and documentation, define some development standards, i.e.; core technology directions for style sheets, javascript librarys, etc.). I think the idea of profiling Geeklog sites is a great marketing tool. It also shows off what can be done with Geeklog. It also shows off the user base, the flexibility and scalability of Geeklog. Thanks! Mark On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" > question. > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.netabout successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form > asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most > important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a > half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can > dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't > doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I > have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the > point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks > I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd > like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on > picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be > worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... > > --Tony > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eakwarren at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 11:13:10 2008 From: eakwarren at gmail.com (Eric Warren) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:13:10 -0600 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In light of this discussion, I'll give this one last try... :-) Please take a look at http://nouveau.gllabs.org. Perhaps a geeklog.net site re-design would help with that perception. Thx! Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at heavenlysanctuary.com Wed Apr 9 11:29:21 2008 From: marco at heavenlysanctuary.com (Marco Belmonte) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:29:21 -0700 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <029f01c89a56$7c393cd0$74abb670$@com> Well said, Mark. From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Mark R. Evans Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:39 AM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Generally a re-branding is something that is done to support a much larger effort, a new focus or a new direction. To re-brand or rename just for the sake of a change is, in my opinion, a large effort with very little benefit. Cost and effort are high, not to mention, the limitation of domain names to choose from... "What's in a name? that which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet;" Geeklog is what it is. If there is a perception that it is dead then I would address that perception directly. Why is it perceived to be dead? Lack of releases? Lack of documentation? Lack of a growing developer base? Lack of direction? Lack of communication? Lack of themes? Lack of plugins? Lack of community? I won't offer any answers to this question, that I'll leave to the core team to figure out. My only advice is to understand why there is a negative perception and address those issues directly. Solve the identify crisis that is Geeklog. Define what it is and standardize on that definition. With a little effort you can find Geeklog defined as 3 distinct tools, a blog, a CMS and an application development framework. It is all of those, but how do you summarize this into something that can be the center or focus of a marketing theme? Dirk summed it up well in his Using Geeklog as an Application Development Framework presentation; Geeklog is; An application to manage dynamic web content. Rally around that statement, build on it and publicize it. Changing the name, in my opinion, would simply be a distraction from real work that needs to be done (release 1.5, write documentation, figure out how to put up a tracker, clean up the downloads area on geeklog.net, update the developer tools; universal toolkit and documentation, define some development standards, i.e.; core technology directions for style sheets, javascript librarys, etc.). I think the idea of profiling Geeklog sites is a great marketing tool. It also shows off what can be done with Geeklog. It also shows off the user base, the flexibility and scalability of Geeklog. Thanks! Mark On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... --Tony _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kingsley at save.9vtrains.com Wed Apr 9 11:34:49 2008 From: kingsley at save.9vtrains.com (Eric Kingsley) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:34:49 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47FCE219.7090004@save.9vtrains.com> Just another Lurker on this list putting in their 2 cents. This is a very interesting discussion. First, I agree with Dirk and Mark. I think a name change is a bad idea. Way too much effort for far too little result. Dirk Said: >Having said that, I think we should actually take that one step further >and remove the news articles almost entirely. Say, let's keep the >featured story and the forum block and fill the rest with more static >content. A bit more like e.g. wordpress.org. This struck me. I do think Geeklog could use a face lift. The main site needs more WOW and less blandness. It should snap and grab ones attention. Right now it does appear a little more technical than it probably should. The Wordpress example is perfect. It is brief with a couple snappy graphics and draws folks in. Mark Said: >I think the idea of profiling Geeklog sites is a great marketing tool. >It also shows off what can be done with Geeklog. It also shows off the >user base, the flexibility and scalability of Geeklog. I think this is a great idea to add splash to the main home page. A small corner of the site could be dedicated to a "Geeklog Site of the Month". That more than anything could show the versatility of Geeklog. I currently manage 5 different sites from just a family blog to a club site to a Time Share Owners association. Unfortunately I have yet to convince someone to pay me to get them set up but I can't say I've tried to do that either. From a personal perspective, I love Geeklog. It has grown tremendously in the last several years and there are a few really nice plugins. When I first started I was also running phpBB and Gallery software on my sites. Now I just run with the Forum Plugin and Media Gallery as they are both robust enough to stand on their own and in some ways hey are superior to the other programs. Now Geeklog does have its faults. The documentation needs an update and installation for folks without at least a little technical background is difficult. I have seen Geeklog available through Fantastico on several hosts but I find this imperfect. I think this type of service should be revisited along with the way Geeklog is packaged in such situations. I know everyone has been working on getting the configuration settings integrated into the site, this is a huge step for folks that would want to use a Fantastico software type install. The problem with folks that use services like Fantastico is they want simple one stop shopping and a current Fantastico install doesn't give that. I think that a prepackaged version of Geeklog that includes several plugins would make Geeklog desirable to the Fantastico crowd. A Fantastico Type install should include the following... 1. Geeklog 2. Forums 3. Media Gallery 4. Captcha 5. Caching Template Library 6. Chameleon This gives the non-technical user a way to format their site without CSS and the biggest and most important plugins available which they can turn on and off at their discretion. The main issue here would be service updates and how you get folks to keep up with service updates after the initial install. Anyway those are some of my thoughts, Eric From lakechang at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 12:51:08 2008 From: lakechang at gmail.com (Lake Chang) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 00:51:08 +0800 Subject: [geeklog-devel] geeklog-devel Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks you, Dirk! Your reply makes me clear about many things. >>It may be a language issue It is! The word "product" I used was just to mean an output, not something for sale. The word "geek" does seem somewhat ignoble to me. Those words won't be a problem any more now that you had explained. >>The actual issue that the "dead" post was about, ... Nice judgement! The problem is that we blended the problem of progress with the problem of name. Actually they are different problems. We should deal with them separately. >>That would avoid the backlog of outdated articles and actual changes >>would be more visible. In fact I prefer the style of geeklog.net to wordpress.org. IMHO, one way to deal with such problems is only to show a title of the old articles and post a link to the content, but show more content of the new articles. Now I'm wondering where to put the user profile and other related contents of social networking... The original question, about Geeklog's name, I need to think more about it. Yours, Lei 2008/4/9 : > Send geeklog-devel mailing list submissions to > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > geeklog-devel-request at lists.geeklog.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > geeklog-devel-owner at lists.geeklog.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of geeklog-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Perception is everything... (Trinity) > 2. Re: Perception is everything... (Randy Kolenko) > 3. Re: Perception is everything... (Dirk Haun) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:37:04 -0500 > From: Trinity > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: "Geeklog Development" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I think a name change would be an excellent idea. The name Geeklog dose > not > promote the robustness or flexibility of the code base. If we wish to > maintain and increase interested developers and end users to this project > we > have to have a name that doesn't limit, in the minds of those who > encounter > it, what the software in question is capable of. Geeklog to me would be > fine > if the code base was focused around single author blogging, > > We all know this is not what we have before us anymore. Geeklog has > blossomed into something much more than a simple web blog script. Some of > the plugins and add-ons I have seen in development are more geared to > commerce, community building, project management, and information > retrieval. > Work is being done on creating plugins that add social networking > features, > e-commerce, and document/media management. Developers are using Geeklog to > create sites for both "for profit" and "non profit" use as well as > personal > use. > > So here is an idea....... > > I remember that at one time, I suggested making the story/article stuff a > separate plug in. and calling this a web site/application/portal > development > framework. To most people in the industry the word CMS means such a thing. > If the story/articles plugin was called Geeklog but the core framework > something else I think it would make more sense. I think it would be a > bad > decision to abandon the familiarity of the geeklog brand > > If I thought it would benefit the community and the community was > receptive to this idea, I would allow the use of a brand name I had come > up > with for creating a some what commercial website oriented version of > geeklog. The brand name i was planing on using was Slackdog. I still plan > on > using the name for my commercial consulting work as in i own slackdog.com. > But if you were to register slackdog.org and use it for the core > framework > site, my marketing endeavors would trickle down and help promote the > project. > > quite a few open source projects have a commercial entity offering for > fee > support and customization services attached to them. I would be willing to > contribute some % of profits to the support of the open source project as > well and entertain partnering with other core dev's on my business > venture. > Wouldent it be nice if the core devs got paid to work on the code full > time? > > I know this might at first sound self serving but i am just trying to help > and throw ideas around. If you think this is a bad idea i would be > interested in knowing the reasons and get an idea of what everyone would > like to see. > > - Trinity > > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Michael Jervis wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > > > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the importance of a > name. > > I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS but if you go on name > alone > > who would you pick: > > > > > > Geeklog > > > Joomla > > > Drupal > > > PHPNuke > > > Wordpress > > > > Me, I'd go on name alone: > > > > PHPNuke > > Geeklog > > Drupal > > Joomla > > Wordpress > > > > And in reality I went: > > > > PHPNuke > > Geeklog > > Drupal > > Geeklog > > > > Changing the name /might/ be good, but you have to consider what > > you're re-branding for. Are you re-branding to sell a platform to > > build sites (glue as Euan suggested?) or to sell to the > > Wordpress/Drupal style market where they just want a ready to go > > platform. i.e. developers or (I struggle to find the right word here, > > non-technical site owners?) > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/attachments/20080409/074c6678/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:17:19 -0400 > From: "Randy Kolenko" > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: "Geeklog Development" > Message-ID: > <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269C9B at nex-pluto.nextide.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > What about paying out a bounty to one lucky individual who suggests an > alternative/new name for Geeklog? > Run it like a contest. Although the bounty paid isn't HUGE, its sure > better than $0. > Create some buzz in the open source community and perhaps revitalize the > Geeklog core base of users to see that GL is not dead and that its > continually moving forward. > > just my $0.02 worth. > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Michael Jervis > wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Tony Bibbs > wrote: > > Good, it's not just me. I think we undervalue the > importance of a name. I know it sounds like a bunch non-technical BS > but if you go on name alone who would you pick: > > > > Geeklog > > Joomla > > Drupal > > PHPNuke > > Wordpress > > > Me, I'd go on name alone: > > PHPNuke > Geeklog > Drupal > Joomla > Wordpress > > And in reality I went: > > PHPNuke > Geeklog > Drupal > Geeklog > > Changing the name /might/ be good, but you have to > consider what > you're re-branding for. Are you re-branding to sell a > platform to > build sites (glue as Euan suggested?) or to sell to the > Wordpress/Drupal style market where they just want a > ready to go > platform. i.e. developers or (I struggle to find the > right word here, > non-technical site owners?) > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/attachments/20080409/3fe599c4/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:45:37 +0200 > From: Dirk Haun > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... > To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > Message-ID: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440 at webmail.df.eu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > format="flowed" > > Tony Bibbs wrote: > > > Dirk when you get a minute I'd be interested to hear your take. > > "You _can_ say geeks now, Mom." > > (from "Microserfs" by Douglas Coupland, 1995) > > > It may be a language issue, but I never had a problem over here > "selling" Geeklog. If anything, the name was considered a bit bland > and non-descriptive, but not "offensive". > > The actual issue that the "dead" post was about, though, is our lack > of visible progress. That's also something we've discussed before: > There is a lot going on, but it's happening behind the scenes and if > you don't lurk on geeklog-devel, you'll never hear of it until, > suddenly, a new release appears out of thin air (or so it would seem). > > In fact, we did make the conscious decision to move things off of the > geeklog.net front page and into the forums. But now that we only have > new stories up every now and then, it gives the impression of not > being very active. > > Having said that, I think we should actually take that one step > further and remove the news articles almost entirely. Say, let's keep > the featured story and the forum block and fill the rest with more > static content. A bit more like e.g. wordpress.org. > > That would avoid the backlog of outdated articles and actual changes > would be more visible. Too bad we don't have a lot of associated sites > any more or I would bring up the idea of running a Planet (in parallel > or inside of Geeklog) again. Or at least include an RSS feed from > somewhere. > > bye, Dirk > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > End of geeklog-devel Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7 > ******************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From WebSiteMaster at cogeco.net Wed Apr 9 13:34:39 2008 From: WebSiteMaster at cogeco.net (Web Site Master) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:34:39 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <12B030075D724798B3F2A5074F487E34@PC1> Why not do a partial change? Call it GL or GL.Net for short while still keeping the Geeklog brand. This way we keep the domain name, etc.. Most or our competitors names are not much better and our only problem (IMO) is the term geek in the name may turn off the non techie (= customer). What I think we should maybe change is our title "The Ultimate Weblog System" to something more descriptive? This would be easier to do than a brand new name. Maybe would should get a new name for Geeklog 2 since this is a brand new project and I can see both projects existing at the same time for a while (when 2 is released). I think a refreshing of the site design and Dirks staticpage idea for the front page (like wordpress) is a good idea just as long as we have a news story section some where on the site. Just some ideas. Tom _____ From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Tony Bibbs Sent: April-08-08 9:14 PM To: Geeklog Development Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... --Tony __________ NOD32 3011 (20080408) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonybibbs.com Wed Apr 9 14:38:50 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <214532.40302.qm@web707.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sounds like a majority of people seem to agree with conflicts with the name. I think you can file arguments for changing the name into a couple buckets: 1) Marketing. This is as much about making it "sound" good as it is performing well. Is it the desire of GL developers to see their work used in more professional areas? I know I can answer yes to that and I can't tell you how uncomfortable it is to use the "Geeklog" name in from of a 50yr old manager type who knows little about technology. 2) Perception of change. Let's face it...back when I was running the project until now Geeklog has changed tremendously. All GL devs seem to hate the CMS label it gets. If we want to really redefine what GL is to us, a name change could help make that point. To also help this, we are literally nearing a end of development before the first GL2 alpha. To help usher in all this change maybe a coordinated effort to change the name and release both 1.5 and GL2 alpha1 all at once? Finally, more to Mark's concerns I don't see this as a distraction at all. I think if we all agree to make the name change then we can define a community process for collecting feedback and all that can be happening while 1.5 and GL2a1 development wraps up. I also feel strongly about item #1 above and this is over 7yrs of experience with the tool talking. I think all this stuff harnessed and coordinated can really generate some buzz which is definitely a good thing. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: William P. Bushey To: Geeklog Development Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:24:05 AM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... RE: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... May I put my 2 cents in? As a person who has just discovered Geeklog I did find the name to be very misleading. When I first heard of Geeklog I figured it was a program to assist in team coding, perhaps a code versioning system with chat support and logging. If I may be so bold as to suggest a different name, based on the broad website platform that Geeklog really is, perhaps a spinoff of Microsoft's .Net name would work. How about .Site or Dot Site (since punctuation in a name can be a hassle .) -Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bibbs [mailto:tony at tonybibbs.com] Sent: Tue 4/8/2008 9:13 PM To: Geeklog Development Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog Dead" question. First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on gl.net about successful GL installations. The idea is simple, have a standard form asking users about their decision to use Geeklog, what features are most important to them, areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can dig up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. I don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source CMS areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on "Geeklog". In fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content Management System" to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd like to suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation on picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... --Tony -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirk at haun-online.de Wed Apr 9 14:49:41 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 20:49:41 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <12B030075D724798B3F2A5074F487E34@PC1> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <12B030075D724798B3F2A5074F487E34@PC1> Message-ID: <20080409184941.1495834135@smtp.haun-online.de> Web Site Master wrote: >What I think we should maybe change is our title "The Ultimate Weblog >System" to something more descriptive? This would be easier to do than a >brand new name. Yes, please. Suggestions? Over on geeklog.info, we switched to "reliability built-in"[1]. Which is still a bold statement but not as, well, pretentious as "Ultimate". bye, Dirk [1] -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From dirk at haun-online.de Wed Apr 9 16:52:07 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:52:07 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <214532.40302.qm@web707.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <214532.40302.qm@web707.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080409205207.313668832@smtp.haun-online.de> Tony Bibbs wrote: >To help usher in all this change maybe a coordinated effort to change >the name and release both 1.5 and GL2 alpha1 all at once? 1.5 = May 26. I doubt we would even have a name by then. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From jason at firewindproductions.com Wed Apr 9 16:20:54 2008 From: jason at firewindproductions.com (Jason Hackwith) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:20:54 -0700 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47FD2526.9010801@firewindproductions.com> I'll emerge from lurking here and say that I completely agree with Mark. If the goal is to change the perception that the Geeklog project is dead, the answer may not necessarily be to find a new central brand name to orient upon. Speaking from a branding perspective, changing the word "Geeklog" to something else probably will not accomplish a perceptual change. Geeklog is, of course, primarily an application development framework. It's much more than that, though... you can say that PHP itself is an application development framework. To me, Geeklog as a brand implies ability, intelligence, flexibility, scalability, smart solutions. It's the CMS (or application framework) that doesn't dumb it down... something that certainly appeals to me. What I'm trying to say is that "Geek" is a positive identity that can not only imply that it's for developers who aren't afraid to get their hands a little dirty, but also that Geeklog itself is smart enough to handle just about any task thrown at it. I think Geeklog really does fit the larger geek subculture, a positively growing demographic that companies are already tapping. There's a great article about the geek subculture here: http://www.gibberish.com/gazebo/articles/geek31.html I've been a graphic artist/designer for fourteen years, and have been building websites for twelve of those years. In that time, I've seen a lot of open source projects come and go. One of the things that drew me to Geeklog in the first place -- and has kept me using Geeklog today -- is how intelligently it is organized. When I was testing/auditing content management systems five years ago, Geeklog stood apart from the rest because it allowed me to use it as a framework for just about anything without compromising security. Geeklog is smart enough to handle everything behind the scenes of establishing a dynamic, content-driven website -- and flexible enough to morph into any kind of website. No matter what content my clients have for their website, Geeklog is scalable enough to handle it. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. The big disconnect between perception and reality really does exist. It probably results from both a lack of information, and a lack of easy access to that information. What I'm suggesting is this: if you really want to change perception, you need an organized marketing campaign that deliberately communicates the strengths of Geeklog. In other words, Geeklog evangelism. A good starting place is, of course, Geeklog.net. A few suggestions to consider: 1. CLARITY/FOCUS. The homepage for Geeklog.net right now unfortunately suffers from a huge amount of noise. There's just too much extraneous information bombarding visitors for them to get a real handle on what Geeklog is all about. Right now, the Professional theme for Geeklog.net just screams "Portal" -- which is one of the things Geeklog can be, but you don't have to look like a portal to be an effective one. The unfortunate thing is that important information often gets lost in the din. 2. NAVIGATION. Right now, it's too hard to find answers on the site because almost everything is just plopped on the home page. Some time developing and clarifying the site navigation would make a big difference. An entire section devoted to Geeklog evangelism (why Geeklog, what you can use Geeklog for, a showcase of great Geeklog sites, the top ten best features of Geeklog, etc.). 3. ACTIVITY. The antithesis of death is life, so the homepage for Geeklog.net could primarily showcase life; the areas in which there is constant, daily activity. Of course this would include the support forums, but also perhaps a rotating feature showcasing a featured Geeklog site, a particularly great suggestion, plugin, hack, block, etc. 4. COMMUNITY. Geeklog is of course an online community of developers. Organize the community areas like the forums, support, user functions, etc. into a separate area accessible by central navigation. (Canonical is especially good at this. Ubuntu.com is excellently designed and information is easy to find, whether you're just looking for basic information or a particularly detailed hack.) I'm excited that this discussion is taking place and eager to hear what you all think. Jason Hackwith Mark R. Evans wrote: > Generally a re-branding is something that is done to support a much > larger effort, a new focus or a new direction. To re-brand or rename > just for the sake of a change is, in my opinion, a large effort with > very little benefit. Cost and effort are high, not to mention, the > limitation of domain names to choose from... > > "What's in a name? that which we call a rose. By any other name would > smell as sweet;" > > Geeklog is what it is. If there is a perception that it is dead then > I would address that perception directly. Why is it perceived to be > dead? Lack of releases? Lack of documentation? Lack of a growing > developer base? Lack of direction? Lack of communication? Lack of > themes? Lack of plugins? Lack of community? I won't offer any answers > to this question, that I'll leave to the core team to figure out. My > only advice is to understand why there is a negative perception and > address those issues directly. > > Solve the identify crisis that is Geeklog. Define what it is and > standardize on that definition. With a little effort you can find > Geeklog defined as 3 distinct tools, a blog, a CMS and an application > development framework. It is all of those, but how do you summarize > this into something that can be the center or focus of a marketing > theme? Dirk summed it up well in his Using Geeklog as an Application > Development Framework presentation; Geeklog is; An application to > manage dynamic web content. Rally around that statement, build on it > and publicize it. > > Changing the name, in my opinion, would simply be a distraction from > real work that needs to be done (release 1.5, write documentation, > figure out how to put up a tracker, clean up the downloads area on > geeklog.net , update the developer tools; > universal toolkit and documentation, define some development > standards, i.e.; core technology directions for style sheets, > javascript librarys, etc.). > > I think the idea of profiling Geeklog sites is a great marketing > tool. It also shows off what can be done with Geeklog. It also shows > off the user base, the flexibility and scalability of Geeklog. > > Thanks! > Mark > > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Tony Bibbs > wrote: > > Ok, so I've got a couple of points related to the "Is Geeklog > Dead" question. > > First of all, I'd be happy to do weekly or bi-monthly posts on > gl.net about successful GL installations. The > idea is simple, have a standard form asking users about their > decision to use Geeklog, what features are most important to them, > areas of improvement and whatnot. I've got at least a half dozen > sites at the State of Iowa I could recommend and I know we can dig > up a lot more including some of our most noteable like Groklaw, etc. > > Also, more controversial, I've struggled with the Geeklog brand. > I don't doubt that we've garnered some respect in the open source > CMS areana but I have a hard time selling non-techies on > "Geeklog". In fact it is to the point I just call it a "Content > Management System" to avoid the silly looks I get. My question is > am I the only one that feels this way? If not, I'd like to > suggest renaming the project and allowing community participation > on picking the name. I'm fine with leaving it as Geeklog but > figured it'd be worth discussion. I'll go crawl under a rock now... > > --Tony > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From tony at tonybibbs.com Wed Apr 9 19:03:27 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <946878.38630.qm@web706.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Really? Over a month of letting the community mull it over? Maybe I'm naive. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Dirk Haun To: geeklog-devel Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:52:07 PM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Tony Bibbs wrote: >To help usher in all this change maybe a coordinated effort to change >the name and release both 1.5 and GL2 alpha1 all at once? 1.5 = May 26. I doubt we would even have a name by then. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From devel at portalparts.com Wed Apr 9 22:32:29 2008 From: devel at portalparts.com (Blaine Lang) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:32:29 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: Dirk Haun wrote: > It may be a language issue, but I never had a problem over here "selling" Geeklog. If anything, the name was considered a bit bland and non-descriptive, but not "offensive". The name issue has always been a problem for me and I think many of us when describing the solution/framework. I used to be a lot more sensitive to the funny looks I would get and mostly ignore the looks now but know it definitely effects our ability to sell GL to customers and potential developers that I have tried to get involved. If a developer or a user spends much time with GL then they can appreciate it but it definitely is a challenge or hurdle at first impressions. Just today, I had lunch with a long-time friend that now has a senior management position. Trying to describe what I do and using the word Geeklog makes it sound like we are using a 3rd rate solution. Joomola which is a fork of Mambo had some initial "what's that comments" and now it's more well known then Mambo is. We need a name like Drupal which sounds great, means nothing, in any language that I know, and does not give any negative impressions. As part of the name change would be a new site design and communication plan. This is really the same approach the Core team discussed 2-3 years ago. I think leveraging the SOC and getting community support with case studies would really help sell the new re-launch. The community has some large sites that should be willing to help us with cross-marketing. This has been a long-time desire of mine to have a better name and just felt there was not enough support to make this happen. I agree with Mark that we also need to get our project resources setup properly as it's a bit embarrassing ;) Are there not members of the community that can offer their time and experience to setup the needed applications? Blaine From info at heatherengineering.com Wed Apr 9 23:27:44 2008 From: info at heatherengineering.com (Euan McKay) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:27:44 +0900 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: I don't think the name is offensive. I just think it is not helping Geeklog achieve its potential. As for taglines, I think MovableType's 'publishing platform' is really good. Very focused. To copy Joomla! and Ubuntu and go with the Swahili theme, 'thabiti' means 'secure, strong, reliable, firm, genuine, steadfast' (http://kamusiproject.org/). Now, would that be any easier to introduce than 'Geeklog' at a board meeting....? :-) Some stream-of-consciousness thoughts on taglines below if wanted. Cheers, Euan. POSSIBLE MEMES: security flexibility development/application online/web publishing MAYBE: The secure weblog secure web publishing secure web applications secure web communities secure communities secure publishing secure online publishing The secure xxxxxx The secure CMS PROBABLY NOT: secure web platform Secure online development secure development platform secure online life development framework Glue Gluing communities gluing communities together Webglue It does what you need. flexible security security online security on the web content management system Framework development web community framework web application framework a framework for development the framework for community the community framework web framework secure web apps secure, flexible web applications web applications with security web applications with added security secure development for secure development secure life online flexible web platform On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Blaine Lang wrote: > Dirk Haun wrote: > > It may be a language issue, but I never had a problem over here "selling" > Geeklog. If anything, the name was considered a bit bland and > non-descriptive, but not "offensive". > > The name issue has always been a problem for me and I think many of us when > describing the solution/framework. I used to be a lot more sensitive to the > funny looks I would get and mostly ignore the looks now but know it > definitely effects our ability to sell GL to customers and potential > developers that I have tried to get involved. If a developer or a user > spends much time with GL then they can appreciate it but it definitely is a > challenge or hurdle at first impressions. Just today, I had lunch with a > long-time friend that now has a senior management position. Trying to > describe what I do and using the word Geeklog makes it sound like we are > using a 3rd rate solution. > > Joomola which is a fork of Mambo had some initial "what's that comments" > and now it's more well known then Mambo is. We need a name like Drupal which > sounds great, means nothing, in any language that I know, and does not give > any negative impressions. > > As part of the name change would be a new site design and communication > plan. This is really the same approach the Core team discussed 2-3 years > ago. I think leveraging the SOC and getting community support with case > studies would really help sell the new re-launch. The community has some > large sites that should be willing to help us with cross-marketing. > > This has been a long-time desire of mine to have a better name and just > felt there was not enough support to make this happen. > > I agree with Mark that we also need to get our project resources setup > properly as it's a bit embarrassing ;) > Are there not members of the community that can offer their time and > experience to setup the needed applications? > > Blaine > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From eakwarren at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 00:40:20 2008 From: eakwarren at gmail.com (Eric Warren) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:40:20 -0600 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: > Are there not members of the community that can offer their time and > experience to setup the needed applications? > > Blaine It doesn't seem like it, accoring to Dirk in http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&showtopic=81868. " "Quote by: geiss I am aware of the "history" there, and while it is a shame Oliver chose to leave, I can't help but wonder why anyone else hasn't been offered the ability to "step up" so to speak." To be perfectly honest, I don't see any obvious candidates right now. " To be frank, the core team has always been a pretty closed group. Sometimes that's been beneficial, other times it's been detrimental. People have repeatedly come along that are willing to help out in one capacity or another, but the doors to get things done have been hard to open at times. I doubt anyone is asking for a golden key to everything, but it might help relieve stress and pressure on the core team, to delegate certain aspects of developing an open-source CMS. For instance, the whole site re-design you guys are mulling over, why not invite a few active community members to be in charge of it? >From my reply to Dirk above in http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&showtopic=81868, " That might currently be the case, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I have two thoughts: 1- At the hospital where I work, we've had a position open for almost 2 years because the job requirements and education are so stringent. There are only a handful of qualified people in the entire country that could fill the position as currently defined, and because of it, that particular program at the hospital is stagnating. The point is, if you are looking for someone who can for example develop code, write documentation, theme, troubleshoot, has a personality that meshes well with the existing group, has the available time, and has the interest, you probably will never find the right candidate. Wink 2- Using my example from work above, perhaps a smaller set of criteria can be identified, and make several smaller positions available and delegate some responsibility. Then, instead of one "core dev" group, the community could start to form smaller, more focused groups that all work in tandem toward the goals of the Geeklog project. Some brainstormed groups could include: Core code developers, plugin developers, theme developers, documentation groups, a team to manage the main website and possible subsites...etc. Overall, I'm not suggesting one redesign the wheel, but maybe add 3 other wheels, an axle, and a body, and together we can drive around and impress all our friends! " Thoughts? Eric From contagious at gatech.edu Thu Apr 10 01:09:14 2008 From: contagious at gatech.edu (Andre Bluehs) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:09:14 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: <47FDA0FA.1010403@gatech.edu> I think you may be right about the momentum SoC will give you. Over the summer there will be an injection of new ideas, personalities, experiences that will probably give some really good ideas for names/strategies. I hope to work on it, and i definitely plan to preach from the highest ...uh... forums... about what i'm doing, what can be done with GL, and that people should give it a try. Its almost as if after this summer and making all the changes, GL would get a fresh start with 2.0. Anyway, those are my thoughts about the subject. -- ------------------------------------- Andre Bluehs || contagious at gatech.edu ------------------------------------- Blaine Lang wrote: > Dirk Haun wrote: > > It may be a language issue, but I never had a problem over here > "selling" Geeklog. If anything, the name was considered a bit bland > and non-descriptive, but not "offensive". > > The name issue has always been a problem for me and I think many of us > when describing the solution/framework. I used to be a lot more > sensitive to the funny looks I would get and mostly ignore the looks > now but know it definitely effects our ability to sell GL to customers > and potential developers that I have tried to get involved. If a > developer or a user spends much time with GL then they can appreciate > it but it definitely is a challenge or hurdle at first impressions. > Just today, I had lunch with a long-time friend that now has a senior > management position. Trying to describe what I do and using the word > Geeklog makes it sound like we are using a 3rd rate solution. > > Joomola which is a fork of Mambo had some initial "what's that > comments" and now it's more well known then Mambo is. We need a name > like Drupal which sounds great, means nothing, in any language that I > know, and does not give any negative impressions. > > As part of the name change would be a new site design and > communication plan. This is really the same approach the Core team > discussed 2-3 years ago. I think leveraging the SOC and getting > community support with case studies would really help sell the new > re-launch. The community has some large sites that should be willing > to help us with cross-marketing. > > This has been a long-time desire of mine to have a better name and > just felt there was not enough support to make this happen. > > I agree with Mark that we also need to get our project resources setup > properly as it's a bit embarrassing ;) > Are there not members of the community that can offer their time and > experience to setup the needed applications? > > Blaine > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mjervis at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 03:04:04 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:04:04 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804100004r2bd879f6r2ae1712fafda602c@mail.gmail.com> > We need a name like Drupal which > sounds great, means nothing, in any language that I know, and does not give > any negative impressions. "Drupal is an English transliteration of the Dutch word "druppel," which means "drop" (as in "a water droplet"). " Tied to the logo... From tomw at pigstye.net Thu Apr 10 08:27:46 2008 From: tomw at pigstye.net (Tom Willett) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:27:46 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: <47FE07C2.4080909@pigstye.net> Eric Warren wrote: > To be frank, the core team has always been a pretty closed group. > Sometimes that's been beneficial, other times it's been detrimental. > People have repeatedly come along that are willing to help out in one > capacity or another, but the doors to get things done have been hard > to open at times. I doubt anyone is asking for a golden key to > everything, but it might help relieve stress and pressure on the core > team, to delegate certain aspects of developing an open-source CMS. > For instance, the whole site re-design you guys are mulling over, why > not invite a few active community members to be in charge of it? > Exactly the reason I am no longer active. -- Tom Willett tomw at pigstye.net From mjervis at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 09:43:34 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:43:34 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <47FE07C2.4080909@pigstye.net> References: <20080409144537.kh6b9pmtoosko440@webmail.df.eu> <47FE07C2.4080909@pigstye.net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804100643p1ee4a5e5w64382fa71596ac@mail.gmail.com> I think there are two problems being discussed, and I dispute the legitimacy of the relationship: 1) Marketability of the project(s) in a commercial environment 2) "Lack" of activity on the project(s) I do not dispute that the Geeklog branding may be difficult to "sell" to old middle/upper management types who shrink from the Geeklog name with an expression of horror. They want "Corporate Portal Engine Enterprise Edition 2008", not "Geeklog - The Ultimate Weblog System". However, people looking for a blogging engine for a small spare time project or something who would be doing it all themselves and considering Drupal etc (like me) won't be put off by it. Also Geeklog has bona-fide Geek attracting credentials and might help with point 2 above. I think the best approach (having been thinking) is to "split" the project as Trinity suggested, and have a source code project for producing the "engine" and another project for a corporate friendly branded "solution". I also think this is inappropriate for Geeklog 1.x which is a blogging engine that has evolved to do much more, but very appropriate for Geeklog 2.x which is a framework that ships with plugins to make a Geeklog 1.4/1.5 esque system (i.e. more than a blogging engine). You'd then have The Geeklog Project which was maintaining the legacy Geeklog 1.x software and looking after the Geeklog 2.x framework (as opposed to a full ready to go installable product) and a "Corporate Portal Engine Enterprise Edition 2008" site/system etc that was using that to release a useable package with an installer and ready to go base set of plugin functionality. You could then sell CPEEE and projects based on installing, configuring and extending it with credibility in a commercial environment, charge a fee for it (dual licencing of geeklog 2...) etc. Whilst "the community" could grab the Geeklog 2 Framework (G2F) and the plugins and install them (oh yeah there would have to be a "base" installable distro of the G2F that's close to CPEEE I guess, or at least there would soon be one even if "we" didn't provide it). There's plenty of scope then for Blaine's CPEEE and Trinity's CPEEE and anyone else who has a business selling Geeklog to have their "own" CPEEE equivalent as well as a smaller community offering. It's all in the bundling of value add services and premium plugins tailored to your particular market. None of this rebranding though is close to being related to project activity. If anything it's the inverse (who wants to dabble in CPEEE? We'd rather contribute to something nice and Open Source/Geeky like G2F) With Geeklog 1.x I don't think we have the same opportunity to split the project. Shall I split the thread for my thoughts on activity of the project? Mike From info at heatherengineering.com Thu Apr 10 13:01:54 2008 From: info at heatherengineering.com (Euan McKay) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:01:54 +0900 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Checkout plugin Message-ID: Hello, I just wrote a plugin that, I think, is not useless. Even if I do say so myself. The catch is it doesn't do anything. Well, not until other plugins co-operate. I know this is not core development stuff, but I figured the right people are on this list so I'm posting here. Also, I think it is pretty useful functionality that later could be kept as a core plugin. One, it will check out items when users edit them, so that other users cannot edit them. Then, after a time limit and/or the user cancels or saves, it will check the item in again. Two, it will keep versions of items. All the plugin does is keep pointers to items, and requires other plugins to actually add/delete the versions (with two simple functions). It just requires a single line call to the checkout plugin on edit, save, cancel and delete. I have a beta that works fine for me, but I'd like some feedback for two reasons: one, if other plugin developers don't co-operate, this is pretty useless, and two, I want to know if my way of adding version tags to ids is going to mess up anything. Part of the README file is posted below. If anyone interested would like a tarball, email me and I'll send you one tomorrow. Goodnight. Euan. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Euan McKay PhD Candidate in International Relations Department of Advanced Social and International Studies Graduate School of Arts and Sciences The University of Tokyo README for Checkout plugin 6. Integration with other plugins The Checkout plugin does nothing on its own; it is only of use when another plugin uses its functionality. Integration is simple, and consists of two calls on opening a document in edit mode, and on saving a document. The code required in each case is as follows (examples shown are for the staticpages plugin version 1.4.3 included in Geeklog 1.4.1): You only need to add the following line wherever you edit a page: $out = checkout_item ('checkout', $sp_id, 'staticpages'); and the following line wherever you save, cancel or delete a page. $in = checkout_item ('checkin', $sp_id, 'staticpages'); In more detail, with a box to inform the user in case the item was already checked out. Editing: } else if ($mode == 'edit') { // Call the plugin to checkout the item, telling it the id and plugin. // The checkout plugin function will check whether the user has enabled the checkout function or not. $out = checkout_item ('checkout', $sp_id, 'staticpages'); if (is_array($out)) { // We were returned an array, so the item was already checked out to someone. Display a message. // the value of $out['message'] is a formatted block, so you could also show the page with the // block above. $display .= COM_siteHeader ('menu', $LANG_STATIC['staticpageeditor']); $display .= $out['message']; $display .= COM_siteFooter (); } else { // we checked out the item successfully. Show the page editor as usual. $display .= COM_siteHeader ('menu', $LANG_STATIC['staticpageeditor']); $editor = ''; if (isset ($_GET['editor'])) { $editor = COM_applyFilter ($_GET['editor']); } $display .= staticpageeditor ($sp_id, $mode, $editor); $display .= COM_siteFooter (); } } else if ($mode == 'clone') { The following two API functions are also required: This function, when asked, clones an item in the database and gives it a unique id based on the version number provided. e.g. 200804041234 becomes 200804041234_v_1 function checkout_add_version_staticpages ($sp_id, $version) { global $_TABLES; $new_id = $sp_id . '_v_' . $version; // get existing page $result = DB_QUERY ("SELECT * FROM {$_TABLES['staticpage']} WHERE sp_id='$sp_id'"); $A = DB_FetchArray ($result); // save a copy with the new id DB_save ($_TABLES['staticpage'], 'sp_id,sp_uid,sp_title,sp_content,sp_date,sp_hits,sp_format,sp_onmenu, sp_label,owner_id,group_id,perm_owner,perm_group,perm_members,perm_anon,sp_php,sp_nf, sp_centerblock,sp_help,sp_tid,sp_where,sp_inblock,postmode', "'$new_id',{$A['sp_uid']},'{$A['sp_title']}','{$A['sp_content']}',NOW(),{$A['sp_hits']}, '{$A['sp_format']}',{$A['sp_onmenu']},'{$A['sp_label']}',{$A['owner_id']},{$A['group_id']}, {$A['perm_owner']},{$A['perm_group']},{$A['perm_members']},{$A['perm_anon']},'{$A['sp_php']}', '{$A['sp_nf']}',{$A['sp_centerblock']},'{$A['sp_help']}','{$A['sp_tid']}',{$A['sp_where']}, '{$A['sp_inblock']}','{$A['postmode']}'"); return; } This function, when asked, deletes a version from the database which it works out from the version number provided. function checkout_delete_version_staticpages ($sp_id, $version) { global $_TABLES; $delete_id = $sp_id . '_v_' . $version; $sql = "DELETE FROM {$_TABLES['staticpage']} WHERE sp_id='{$delete_id}' LIMIT 1"; DB_query ($sql, 1); if (DB_error ()) { return false; } return true; } From tony at tonybibbs.com Thu Apr 10 16:52:31 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Message-ID: <461033.22704.qm@web703.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Not to point fingers but clearly you are talking 1.x, right? I've been screaming for help on 2.x and have been in "take what I can get" mode forever. I think the crux of all this concern needs to be fundamentally addressed but I wanted to be clear there are alternatives to simply not participating. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Tom Willett To: Geeklog Development Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:27:46 AM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... Eric Warren wrote: > To be frank, the core team has always been a pretty closed group. > Sometimes that's been beneficial, other times it's been detrimental. > People have repeatedly come along that are willing to help out in one > capacity or another, but the doors to get things done have been hard > to open at times. I doubt anyone is asking for a golden key to > everything, but it might help relieve stress and pressure on the core > team, to delegate certain aspects of developing an open-source CMS. > For instance, the whole site re-design you guys are mulling over, why > not invite a few active community members to be in charge of it? > Exactly the reason I am no longer active. -- Tom Willett tomw at pigstye.net _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mjervis at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 17:03:22 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:03:22 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <461033.22704.qm@web703.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <461033.22704.qm@web703.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804101403l2d6c3e55q2ac797805ac1a86f@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > Not to point fingers but clearly you are talking 1.x, right? > > I've been screaming for help on 2.x and have been in "take what I can get" mode forever. I think the crux of all this concern needs to be fundamentally addressed but I wanted to be clear there are alternatives to simply not participating. I responded to a post on the site for a call for help. I was told "here's the tracker, show us what you can do". I did some stuff, provided some patches and was in. Since then I've been unreliable and useless. I saw other people do the same thing and never submit a patch or do anything. I code snakenet.com, numerous times we say "hey we need help, who can help?" we get loads of responses of "me". We ask who can do x? We get a few "me" responses. We ask someone to /do/ x. They don't. Where is the barrier with geeklog contribution? Us or others? From joe at ThrowingDice.com Thu Apr 10 18:23:14 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:23:14 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804101403l2d6c3e55q2ac797805ac1a86f@mail.gmail.co m> References: <461033.22704.qm@web703.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7b42e7470804101403l2d6c3e55q2ac797805ac1a86f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0JZ400IM5RM82BH1@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> At 05:03 PM 4/10/2008, Michael Jervis wrote: >On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > > Not to point fingers but clearly you are talking 1.x, right? > > > > I've been screaming for help on 2.x and have been in "take what > I can get" mode forever. I think the crux of all this concern > needs to be fundamentally addressed but I wanted to be clear there > are alternatives to simply not participating. > >I responded to a post on the site for a call for help. Hasn't been such a specific post in ages that I remember. Instead, SOC folk are invited after a single contribution rather than folk who've been around for years. >I was told "here's the tracker, show us what you can do". Today, of course, there's no tracker for someone new to "show what they can do" with. But that's a separate issue. A few weeks (months?) ago, someone suggested just putting up any new tracker and having the community back-fill the old data. Lot's of agreement on that being a good idea. Still no progress though. But I've submitted patches to the old tracker. Some were accepted. Others ignored. But hey, I've been around long enough to have posted patches to the old tracker. >I did some stuff, provided some patches and was in. Congrats. >I saw other people do the same thing and never submit a patch or do anything. Yep, seen that myself. I've submitted patches. I've submitted new features. I frequently post bug reports from recent CVS checkins. Apparently, YMMV. >Where is the barrier with geeklog contribution? Us or others? You tell me. ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From dracul01 at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 22:01:50 2008 From: dracul01 at gmail.com (Damien Hodgkin) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:01:50 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <461033.22704.qm@web703.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <461033.22704.qm@web703.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200804102201.54348.dracul01@gmail.com> This is both off and on topic. 1. As far as GL2 development, there was what seemed to be a brief hiatus for some of us on the "core team". I cannot speak for the others but my hiatus from developing GL2 was do to a very personal struggle which took a toll on me emotionally and financially. But needless to say I feel very privileged that Tony chose my Content plugin for part of the major functionality of Gl2. 2. I think that the splitting of the base code (ie. framework) from the full "product" (ie. everything ready to run) is a good idea. Duel licensing would definitely be, IMO, a good and a bad thing. As the problem arises what parts are to be completely free and what is to be considered commercial? Easily remedied with proper planning and discussion. Which brings me to the fact that this discussion is a very important one indeed. 2a. Now, as far as the "framework" goes, obviously GL1.x is far too far along to effectively separate the underlying "framework" from it. Of course GL2 is just that right now, only a framework, that we are trying to get ready for an alpha release with enough functionality to do what people expect it to do as a full application. But no matter how far along we get with GL2 it will still just be a framework with a large amount of plugins. Therefore making it highly customizable. Want just a blog? Just use the Content plugin. Need integration with a desktop client for posting articles, static content, or posts? Activate the (of course these two are not yet in existence) ATOM/XMLRPC plugin. Of course GL1.x is just as customizable, but in a different way. Ok I'm losing my train of thought and I am going to start digressing ( I can feel it ). So I will leave this as is and let others elaborate on it, or scrutinize it. Rip my thoughts apart if you want. Take them to heart and start a religion, I don't care. I just wanted to get my thoughts on the discussion out. It all boils down to this: I have been following Geeklog since 2004 and it is far from dead. And as one of the core developers on GL2 I can definitely say that GL2 is far from dead. As far as I know since I have been developing on it, it has never come close to dying out. So there are my thoughts and digressions. -- Best Regards, Damien ------------- "To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour." - William Blake -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From trinity93 at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 03:18:07 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:18:07 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] UTF-8 in 1.5 Message-ID: Can some one give me a definitive answer on how to get UTF-8 working in 1.5 cvs version. None of the instructions available work with 1.5 and I cant seem to figure it out on my own. I need the support to so i can make a multi-language supported plugin among other things. Every time some one has brought the issue of UTF-8 support up it has been ignored on this mailing list. Any help on this would be appreciated. Thank you -Trinity -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjervis at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 04:57:20 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:57:20 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Geeklog Project Names (was Perception is Everything) Message-ID: <7b42e7470804110157j33abaa46md0fe2624c4571f17@mail.gmail.com> So, IMHO, this clearly needs splitting off. Some proposals for votes, I guess? Geeklog 1.x ------------------ 1) The application can not be split into a framework and release +1 from me 2) The application should be renamed to make it more marketable -1 from me I beleive it's too "late" to do that, and we're not at an appropriate break point for this. We have to "live" with Geeklog 1.x, which I don't find to be a problem, it's just at the "enterprise" end. Geeklog 2.x ------------------ 1) The project should be clearly delineated from distributions of applications +1 from me I beleive we should have a framework separate to lots of "core team" plugins. 1a) There should be a core framework +1 1b) There should be a set of "core" plugins +1 1c) There should be a community distribution called Geeklog 2.x that is an upgrade path from Geeklog 1.x +1 2) The project should be renamed to make it more marketable. -1 from me. With a split into framework, plugins and distributions, I don't think this is necessary, but I guess you could call it G2F (Geeklog 2 Framework) to say that a distro is powered by it without saying Geeklog. 2a) There should be a core "commercial" distro with an appropriate name maintained also by core team +1 And of course, Blaine, Trinity etc could maintain their own premium distro's based on the framework. -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From 1000ideen at gmx.de Fri Apr 11 05:32:13 2008 From: 1000ideen at gmx.de (Markus Wollschlaeger) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:32:13 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Geeklog Project Names - the name is lame Message-ID: <20080411093213.193410@gmx.net> Hello all. It would be great if you discussed the name and also version number issue down there where the ordinary Geeklog user can see it - on the geeklog.net forum! There was an excellent thread on that and I wonder why hardly any core developer joined: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&showtopic=80667 On the other hand you can see that many people joined with opinions who are supposedly not on this rather elite developers list. - It is definitely not only a problem at the "enterprise" end!!! - The name does not have to be changed completely. - The version number is also an issue. - Please keep in mind that English is only 1 out of many languages! Thanks, Markus -- Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser From 1000ideen at gmx.de Fri Apr 11 06:03:01 2008 From: 1000ideen at gmx.de (Markus Wollschlaeger) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:03:01 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] discussing general Geeklog issues Message-ID: <20080411100301.39770@gmx.net> Hello all. It would be great if you discussed general Geeklog issues down there where the ordinary Geeklog user can see it - on the geeklog.net forum! It takes time to discover this list and even more time and skill to discover and operate the archive of this list. It`s much easier to see it on the forum. Geeklog.net would also appear less "dead". Thanks, Markus -- Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free From 1000ideen at gmx.de Fri Apr 11 07:30:38 2008 From: 1000ideen at gmx.de (Markus Wollschlaeger) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:30:38 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] the claim of Geeklog Message-ID: <20080411113038.39770@gmx.net> There is another interesting thread on the forum: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=82241 The "claim" of Geeklog is very important. If you are interested in the developement process of the mini flyer you can see the states here: http://www.hallomarkus.de/copy/geeklog2-pre-tests.pdf As I don`t have the copy rights on the pics I`ll delete this pdf shortly. It was for testing only. Ciao, Markus -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx From tony at tonybibbs.com Fri Apr 11 09:41:14 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] Geeklog Project Names - the name is lame Message-ID: <765825.52406.qm@web702.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Markus, I think the general approach is to see if the developers even want to pursue such things. I can't say for sure but if we did decide to act then I think we'd solicit feedback and responses from the community then. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Markus Wollschlaeger <1000ideen at gmx.de> To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:32:13 AM Subject: [geeklog-devel] Geeklog Project Names - the name is lame Hello all. It would be great if you discussed the name and also version number issue down there where the ordinary Geeklog user can see it - on the geeklog.net forum! There was an excellent thread on that and I wonder why hardly any core developer joined: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&showtopic=80667 On the other hand you can see that many people joined with opinions who are supposedly not on this rather elite developers list. - It is definitely not only a problem at the "enterprise" end!!! - The name does not have to be changed completely. - The version number is also an issue. - Please keep in mind that English is only 1 out of many languages! Thanks, Markus -- Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mjervis at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 09:45:06 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:45:06 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Public/User Perception of Projects (was Perception is everything...) Message-ID: <7b42e7470804110645v1a099148s3f1c10cf567cb112@mail.gmail.com> This also needs splitting off (I think we've got to three contentious issues). The issue here is the public/user [1] perception of the project, and it's activity etc. I like the idea of making Geeklog.net more like the wordpress site with a front that isn't as "live", so thus doesn't show "inactivity" as starkly. However, with Wordpress site there's a lot of support activity going on, themes and plugins, and their development community for the product is pretty much as behind the scenes as ours, but much bigger. Their development blog is quite slow paced and really only announces alphas/betas/rcs/releases. Marcus raises some interesting points, this list is now public so people can follow it, and the archives are public so people can read it, but it's still not visible and "we" [2] don't monitor the forums sufficiently so people see us as dead. Personally, I can't be doing with a "pull" system for finding things. I can't poll the forums for stuff to comment on, mailing list is a perfect "push" media for me. Perhaps what we need is to make the mailing list "more visible" on the site. Maybe a weekly/monthly threads of note post on the geeklog news system? Maybe we need a press/communications officer who does monitor the forums and pokes us to respond to interesting things, and points "duplicate" forum threads to the mailing list conversation we've already had to join it up? And I do really like the look of that neuvau geeklog theme, I do think it makes the site look much better. [1] by which I really mean people who are going to or have downloaded and installed Geeklog to run a site. [2] Dirk does of course. -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From stonemicro at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 10:13:35 2008 From: stonemicro at gmail.com (Stone Micro) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:13:35 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] UTF-8 in 1.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Trinity, Can you be a little by specific in telling us how is it not working? New install or upgrade? Are you talking about the database collations? I haven't installed 1.5cvs yet, but I assume that it should work by default, unless your mySQL is not configure to use UTF-8 by default. Peace! Sam On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Trinity wrote: > Can some one give me a definitive answer on how to get UTF-8 working in > 1.5 cvs version. None of the instructions available work with 1.5 and I > cant seem to figure it out on my own. I need the support to so i can make a > multi-language supported plugin among other things. Every time some one has > brought the issue of UTF-8 support up it has been ignored on this mailing > list. Any help on this would be appreciated. > > Thank you > > -Trinity > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trinity93 at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 11:29:02 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:29:02 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] UTF-8 in 1.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: fresh install...database is set up for utf-8 from scratch. how do i set the lang so it dosent use the non utf-8 lang files? i remove them and everything breaks. There is. no options in config section for setting utf language -trinity On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Stone Micro wrote: > Trinity, > > Can you be a little by specific in telling us how is it not working? New > install or upgrade? Are you talking about the database collations? I > haven't installed 1.5cvs yet, but I assume that it should work by default, > unless your mySQL is not configure to use UTF-8 by default. > > Peace! > > Sam > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Trinity wrote: > > > Can some one give me a definitive answer on how to get UTF-8 working in > > 1.5 cvs version. None of the instructions available work with 1.5 and I > > cant seem to figure it out on my own. I need the support to so i can make a > > multi-language supported plugin among other things. Every time some one has > > brought the issue of UTF-8 support up it has been ignored on this mailing > > list. Any help on this would be appreciated. > > > > Thank you > > > > -Trinity > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joe at ThrowingDice.com Fri Apr 11 11:49:43 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:49:43 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] UTF-8 in 1.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0JZ600BZ43X4LNX0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I believe this is a known issue. I've seen email about it on this list before. I don't know if it was resolved: http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2008-January/002949.html At 11:29 AM 4/11/2008, Trinity wrote: >fresh install...database is set up for utf-8 from scratch. how do i >set the lang so it dosent use the non utf-8 lang files? i remove >them and everything breaks. There is. no options in config section >for setting utf language > >-trinity ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From trinity93 at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 12:03:30 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:03:30 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] UTF-8 in 1.5 In-Reply-To: <0JZ600BZ43X4LNX0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0JZ600BZ43X4LNX0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: that would be the one :-) -Trinity On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Joe Mucchiello wrote: > I believe this is a known issue. I've seen email about it on this list > before. I don't know if it was resolved: > http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2008-January/002949.html > > At 11:29 AM 4/11/2008, Trinity wrote: > > > fresh install...database is set up for utf-8 from scratch. how do i set > > the lang so it dosent use the non utf-8 lang files? i remove them and > > everything breaks. There is. no options in config section for setting utf > > language > > > > -trinity > > > > ---- > Joe Mucchiello > Throwing Dice Games > http://www.throwingdice.com > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1000ideen at gmx.de Fri Apr 11 12:07:58 2008 From: 1000ideen at gmx.de (Markus Wollschlaeger) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:07:58 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Public/User Perception of Projects (was Perception is everything...) Message-ID: <20080411160758.39740@gmx.net> @ Michael Concerning the push and pull of a forum this may be interesting. Alex made a hack to push the thread answers: http://www.portalparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=2&showtopic=5704 Would that do it? You could not post a reply by email though. Concerning the Wordpress style: WP shows on its front page what it can do and that is very little. Geeklog has to show what it can do and that is best represented in 3 columns and the last forum postings (possibly plus showing some more plugins). BTW where can I see the new theme and where is the archive of this list? @Tony: I believe in the "system" of people. You give something and surprise, surprise you get more back than you expected. The community is Geeklog not the developers (though they are very, very important ;-) ) Of course this includes a hierarchy or a decission making group / committee. Anyway I`m curious what comes up next. 8-} Markus -- Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free From eakwarren at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 12:03:29 2008 From: eakwarren at gmail.com (Eric Warren) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:03:29 -0600 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Checkout plugin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Euan, I really like the idea of the checkout plugin! I've ran into that issue a couple times working on a site with another admin and we were both trying to make changes at the same time, unbeknown to each other. Head on over to http://www.gllabs.org/wiki/doku.php?id=gllabsand we'll see what we can accomplish together. :-) Thx! Eric On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Euan McKay wrote: > Hello, > > I just wrote a plugin that, I think, is not useless. Even if I do say so > myself. > The catch is it doesn't do anything. Well, not until other plugins > co-operate. > > I know this is not core development stuff, but I figured the right > people are on this list so I'm posting here. Also, I think it is > pretty useful functionality that later could be kept as a core plugin. > > One, it will check out items when users edit them, so that other users > cannot edit them. Then, after a time limit and/or the user cancels or > saves, it will check the item in again. > > Two, it will keep versions of items. All the plugin does is keep > pointers to items, and requires other plugins to actually add/delete > the versions (with two simple functions). > > It just requires a single line call to the checkout plugin on edit, > save, cancel and delete. > > I have a beta that works fine for me, but I'd like some feedback for > two reasons: one, if other plugin developers don't co-operate, this is > pretty useless, and two, I want to know if my way of adding version > tags to ids is going to mess up anything. > > Part of the README file is posted below. If anyone interested would > like a tarball, email me and I'll send you one tomorrow. > > Goodnight. > > Euan. > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Euan McKay > PhD Candidate in International Relations > Department of Advanced Social and International Studies > Graduate School of Arts and Sciences > The University of Tokyo > > > > > README for Checkout plugin > > > 6. Integration with other plugins > > The Checkout plugin does nothing on its own; it is only of use when > another plugin uses its functionality. Integration is simple, and > consists of two calls on opening a document in edit mode, and on > saving a document. The code required in each case is as follows > (examples shown are for the staticpages plugin version 1.4.3 included > in Geeklog 1.4.1): > > You only need to add the following line wherever you edit a page: > > $out = checkout_item ('checkout', $sp_id, 'staticpages'); > > and the following line wherever you save, cancel or delete a page. > > $in = checkout_item ('checkin', $sp_id, 'staticpages'); > > > In more detail, with a box to inform the user in case the item was > already checked out. > > Editing: > > } else if ($mode == 'edit') { > // Call the plugin to checkout the item, telling it the id and plugin. > // The checkout plugin function will check whether the user has > enabled the checkout function or not. > $out = checkout_item ('checkout', $sp_id, 'staticpages'); > if (is_array($out)) { > // We were returned an array, so the item was already checked > out to someone. Display a message. > // the value of $out['message'] is a formatted block, so you > could also show the page with the > // block above. > $display .= COM_siteHeader ('menu', > $LANG_STATIC['staticpageeditor']); > $display .= $out['message']; > $display .= COM_siteFooter (); > } else { > // we checked out the item successfully. Show the page editor as > usual. > $display .= COM_siteHeader ('menu', > $LANG_STATIC['staticpageeditor']); > $editor = ''; > if (isset ($_GET['editor'])) { > $editor = COM_applyFilter ($_GET['editor']); > } > $display .= staticpageeditor ($sp_id, $mode, $editor); > $display .= COM_siteFooter (); > } > } else if ($mode == 'clone') { > > > > The following two API functions are also required: > > This function, when asked, clones an item in the database and gives it > a unique id based on the version number provided. e.g. 200804041234 > becomes 200804041234_v_1 > > function checkout_add_version_staticpages ($sp_id, $version) > { > global $_TABLES; > $new_id = $sp_id . '_v_' . $version; > > // get existing page > $result = DB_QUERY ("SELECT * FROM {$_TABLES['staticpage']} WHERE > sp_id='$sp_id'"); > $A = DB_FetchArray ($result); > > // save a copy with the new id > DB_save ($_TABLES['staticpage'], > 'sp_id,sp_uid,sp_title,sp_content,sp_date,sp_hits,sp_format,sp_onmenu, > > > sp_label,owner_id,group_id,perm_owner,perm_group,perm_members,perm_anon,sp_php,sp_nf, > > sp_centerblock,sp_help,sp_tid,sp_where,sp_inblock,postmode', > > > "'$new_id',{$A['sp_uid']},'{$A['sp_title']}','{$A['sp_content']}',NOW(),{$A['sp_hits']}, > > > '{$A['sp_format']}',{$A['sp_onmenu']},'{$A['sp_label']}',{$A['owner_id']},{$A['group_id']}, > > > {$A['perm_owner']},{$A['perm_group']},{$A['perm_members']},{$A['perm_anon']},'{$A['sp_php']}', > > > '{$A['sp_nf']}',{$A['sp_centerblock']},'{$A['sp_help']}','{$A['sp_tid']}',{$A['sp_where']}, > '{$A['sp_inblock']}','{$A['postmode']}'"); > return; > } > > This function, when asked, deletes a version from the database which > it works out from the version number provided. > > function checkout_delete_version_staticpages ($sp_id, $version) > { > global $_TABLES; > $delete_id = $sp_id . '_v_' . $version; > $sql = "DELETE FROM {$_TABLES['staticpage']} WHERE > sp_id='{$delete_id}' LIMIT 1"; > DB_query ($sql, 1); > if (DB_error ()) { > return false; > } > return true; > } > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eakwarren at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 13:16:28 2008 From: eakwarren at gmail.com (Eric Warren) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:16:28 -0600 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Public/User Perception of Projects (was Perception is everything...) In-Reply-To: <20080411160758.39740@gmx.net> References: <20080411160758.39740@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Markus Wollschlaeger <1000ideen at gmx.de> wrote: > BTW where can I see the new theme and where is the archive of this list? > The Nouveau theme can be seen at http://nouveau.gllabs.org. We're almost ready to release a gl v1.4.1 compatible version. Because it is built on the Caching Template Library ( http://www.gllabs.org/wiki/doku.php?id=geeklog:templatecache) it only requires files that differ from the base Professional theme. So once gl v1.5 hits, we should be able to publish a 1.5 compatible version almost immediately. (At least, that's my hope! Real world responsibilities might get int he way for a few days... :-) The archive of this email list can be found at http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/ Thx! Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirk at haun-online.de Sat Apr 12 10:52:05 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:52:05 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> Message-ID: <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> Dirk Haun wrote: >Modified Files: > mssql_tableanddata.php >Log Message: >An attempt to update the MS SQL tables and data ... Okay, I tried my best (without even knowing what I'm doing there) ... Can someone with an MS SQL setup please test if a fresh install works now? Updates and plugin uninstall/installs still won't work on MS SQL, but once the fresh install does, I can figure out how to update the rest. Unless, of course, someone who actually knows something about MS SQL could look into fixing these issues directly. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From trinity93 at gmail.com Sat Apr 12 12:20:58 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:20:58 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: It looks good dirk, but i have no way of testing it. I don't have a copy of mssql server laying around anymore. -Trinity On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Dirk Haun wrote: > Dirk Haun wrote: > > >Modified Files: > > mssql_tableanddata.php > >Log Message: > >An attempt to update the MS SQL tables and data ... > > Okay, I tried my best (without even knowing what I'm doing there) ... > > Can someone with an MS SQL setup please test if a fresh install works > now? Updates and plugin uninstall/installs still won't work on MS SQL, > but once the fresh install does, I can figure out how to update the rest. > > Unless, of course, someone who actually knows something about MS SQL > could look into fixing these issues directly. > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.geeklog.net/ > http://geeklog.info/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Sat Apr 12 12:32:04 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:32:04 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CAB@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> I feel some eyes looking in my general direction :-) I'll try to test the changes at some point during the upcoming week. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dirk Haun [mailto:dirk at haun-online.de] > Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 10:52 AM > To: geeklog-devel > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] > Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 > > > Dirk Haun wrote: > > >Modified Files: > > mssql_tableanddata.php > >Log Message: > >An attempt to update the MS SQL tables and data ... > > Okay, I tried my best (without even knowing what I'm doing there) ... > > Can someone with an MS SQL setup please test if a fresh > install works now? Updates and plugin uninstall/installs > still won't work on MS SQL, but once the fresh install does, > I can figure out how to update the rest. > > Unless, of course, someone who actually knows something about > MS SQL could look into fixing these issues directly. > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.geeklog.net/ > http://geeklog.info/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From michael.tutty at gmail.com Sat Apr 12 13:05:33 2008 From: michael.tutty at gmail.com (Michael Tutty) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:05:33 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <62d0f2020804121005j10933cf6m17bead20a603ca89@mail.gmail.com> Just FYI, there are free versions of mssql 2000 and 2005. I'm on my crackberry or I'd have sent the URL's for them, but they're pretty easy to find. M. On 4/12/08, Trinity wrote: > It looks good dirk, but i have no way of testing it. I don't have a copy of > mssql server laying around anymore. > > > -Trinity > > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Dirk Haun wrote: > > > Dirk Haun wrote: > > > > >Modified Files: > > > mssql_tableanddata.php > > >Log Message: > > >An attempt to update the MS SQL tables and data ... > > > > Okay, I tried my best (without even knowing what I'm doing there) ... > > > > Can someone with an MS SQL setup please test if a fresh install works > > now? Updates and plugin uninstall/installs still won't work on MS SQL, > > but once the fresh install does, I can figure out how to update the rest. > > > > Unless, of course, someone who actually knows something about MS SQL > > could look into fixing these issues directly. > > > > bye, Dirk > > > > > > -- > > http://www.geeklog.net/ > > http://geeklog.info/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > geeklog-devel mailing list > > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com From mjervis at gmail.com Sat Apr 12 13:26:35 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:26:35 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <62d0f2020804121005j10933cf6m17bead20a603ca89@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> <62d0f2020804121005j10933cf6m17bead20a603ca89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804121026j47b3b5fbga1b9bdacc342f5f0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Michael Tutty wrote: > Just FYI, there are free versions of mssql 2000 and 2005. I'm on my > crackberry or I'd have sent the URL's for them, but they're pretty > easy to find. > M. 2005/2008 express are free: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/editions/express/default.mspx 2000 has no free version, developers version is ?50 I think. Mie From michael.tutty at gmail.com Sat Apr 12 15:18:19 2008 From: michael.tutty at gmail.com (Michael Tutty) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:18:19 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804121026j47b3b5fbga1b9bdacc342f5f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> <62d0f2020804121005j10933cf6m17bead20a603ca89@mail.gmail.com> <7b42e7470804121026j47b3b5fbga1b9bdacc342f5f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62d0f2020804121218r7c2efdcgb6ea39d66cc5525f@mail.gmail.com> Yes it does. They call it MSDE but it's mssql 2000. Download: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/downloads-default.mspx License: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/MSDErights.mspx Basically if you use any MS developer tool (including the FREE Web Matrix app) or Office that includes MS Access then you're legally entitled to use MSDE 2000. This is a fully-functional and compatible version of SQL Server 2000. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Michael Jervis wrote: > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Michael Tutty > wrote: > > Just FYI, there are free versions of mssql 2000 and 2005. I'm on my > > crackberry or I'd have sent the URL's for them, but they're pretty > > easy to find. > > M. > > 2005/2008 express are free: > http://www.microsoft.com/sql/editions/express/default.mspx > > 2000 has no free version, developers version is ?50 I think. > > Mie > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirk at haun-online.de Sat Apr 12 16:43:35 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:43:35 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804121026j47b3b5fbga1b9bdacc342f5f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> <62d0f2020804121005j10933cf6m17bead20a603ca89@mail.gmail.com> <7b42e7470804121026j47b3b5fbga1b9bdacc342f5f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080412204335.721664339@smtp.haun-online.de> Michael Jervis wrote: >2005/2008 express are free: >http://www.microsoft.com/sql/editions/express/default.mspx Of course you still need this odd operating system to run them on :P bye, Dirk -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhaun/1951687410/ From mjervis at gmail.com Sun Apr 13 01:38:49 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 06:38:49 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <20080412204335.721664339@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> <62d0f2020804121005j10933cf6m17bead20a603ca89@mail.gmail.com> <7b42e7470804121026j47b3b5fbga1b9bdacc342f5f0@mail.gmail.com> <20080412204335.721664339@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804122238p5a428361t24250c09b66d1455@mail.gmail.com> > Of course you still need this odd operating system to run them on :P My main problem is horsepower on my laptop. And the space bar is dying. And the network card is gone. (Wlan works). Going to have to bite the bullet and buy a new one at some point... Mike From dirk at haun-online.de Sun Apr 13 05:12:54 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:12:54 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Geeklog 1.5 status In-Reply-To: <20080321205301.1614627802@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080321205301.1614627802@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <20080413091254.1959393166@smtp.haun-online.de> Dirk Haun wrote: >Geeklog 1.5 is finally coming along to the point where I think I could >actually risk running a site off of it. I did just that now and updated Damn Spam! I've set it up in a new directory and forgot to copy over my old config.php, so I had to set all my options again afterwards. Doh! Other than that, everything went smoothly. The site is rather spartan, though: No polls, no calendar, only Bad Behavior and the NetTools as additional plugins. bye, Dirk -- http://spam.tinyweb.net/ From mark at the-howards.net Sun Apr 13 09:27:56 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:27:56 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events Message-ID: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> Hi Dirk - Just a reminder - was this ever fixed? Thanks! -m From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Mark Howard Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 5:15 PM To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net Subject: [geeklog-devel] Events Block behavior for today's events Hi - Is there a mantis/bugtracker active? If not, what is the most appropriate method to report bugs? I'd like to check to see if the Calendar plugin maintainer has updated phpblock_calendar() for 1.5 so that it will result in the display of the current day's events (at least as an option). The fix I have implemented here is to change the query to utilize CURDATE() instead of NOW(), which allows for events in the current day to be included. I know, there's a fine line between a bug and a feature request (grin), but I guess this one is in the category of what you would think the behavior should be from an intuitive standpoint. Thanks! -m -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00018.txt URL: From mjervis at gmail.com Sun Apr 13 10:36:57 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:36:57 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events In-Reply-To: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> References: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> I looked into it and it works as expected in current CVS. On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Mark Howard wrote: > > > > > Hi Dirk ? > > > > Just a reminder ? was this ever fixed? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > -m > > > > > > From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net > [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Mark Howard > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 5:15 PM > To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > Subject: [geeklog-devel] Events Block behavior for today's events > > > > Hi ? > > > > Is there a mantis/bugtracker active? If not, what is the most appropriate > method to report bugs? > > > > I'd like to check to see if the Calendar plugin maintainer has updated > phpblock_calendar() for 1.5 so that it will result in the display of the > current day's events (at least as an option). The fix I have implemented > here is to change the query to utilize CURDATE() instead of NOW(), which > allows for events in the current day to be included. > > > > I know, there's a fine line between a bug and a feature request (grin), but > I guess this one is in the category of what you would think the behavior > should be from an intuitive standpoint. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -m > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From dirk at haun-online.de Sun Apr 13 11:31:12 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:31:12 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> References: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080413153112.1226307858@smtp.haun-online.de> Michael Jervis wrote: >I looked into it and it works as expected in current CVS. Hmm. I created an event for today, 2 hours in the future. It does not show up. SELECT * FROM gl_events WHERE dateend >= NOW(); does not return the event, whereas SELECT * FROM gl_events WHERE dateend >= CURDATE(); does. So that change does seem to make sense. Doesn't exactly match my idea of NOW(), but there you go ... bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/accu/ From joe at ThrowingDice.com Sun Apr 13 11:41:42 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:41:42 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events In-Reply-To: <20080413153112.1226307858@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> <20080413153112.1226307858@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <0JZ900KNSSXAJQD3@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> At 11:31 AM 4/13/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: >Michael Jervis wrote: > > >I looked into it and it works as expected in current CVS. > >Hmm. I created an event for today, 2 hours in the future. It does not show up. > > SELECT * FROM gl_events WHERE dateend >= NOW(); NOW() is APR 13, 2008, 11:40:34 AM EST >does not return the event, whereas > > SELECT * FROM gl_events WHERE dateend >= CURDATE(); CURDATE() is APR 13, 2008 >does. > >So that change does seem to make sense. Doesn't exactly match my idea of >NOW(), but there you go ... NOW() and CURDATE() do different things. Event "times" in the databse as stored in two pairs of fields using separate date and time types. If the date fields were timestamps, NOW() would work as you expect. Issues like this exist throughout the calendar plugin. ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From dirk at haun-online.de Sun Apr 13 14:59:20 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:59:20 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" Message-ID: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> Okay, as you know, we haven't had a bugtracker for over a year now. Until recently, I insisted on carrying over all the old bugs into whatever we chose to use as the new system. However, after a year or so without any access to that information, that doesn't really make sense any more. Dwight had volunteered to attempt to port over the old bugs from GForge to Mantis but was only partially successful - some information was lost, some did get ported over, some ended up in the wrong category. In order to have _anything_ at this point, I've decided to leave all these partially ported bugs in place and mark them "resolved" and "closed" so that we can at least use the Mantis install to start over fresh now. I've set up a simple portal page at . The bugtracker has all the accounts from our old GForge-based tracker, so if you still know your username and email address, you should be able to request a new password. If you need help with your account, email me. Any bugs with numbers prior to #604 should be ignored - those are the partially ported ones. Feel free to enter any issues that you are aware of and let me know if anything doesn't work as expected - I'll see what I can do. For now, this should be considered "beta" (or even "experimental") but I figured it would be better than nothing ... bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://geeklog.info/ From joe at ThrowingDice.com Sun Apr 13 15:35:04 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:35:04 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <0JZA000M93Q7XBU1@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> At 02:59 PM 4/13/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: >The bugtracker has all the accounts from our old GForge-based tracker, >so if you still know your username and email address, you should be able >to request a new password. If you need help with your account, email me. My account logged in no problem. >Feel free to enter any issues that you are aware of and let me know if >anything doesn't work as expected - I'll see what I can do. For now, >this should be considered "beta" (or even "experimental") but I figured >it would be better than nothing ... Those categories are .... interesting. That's a good word for it I think. As a suggestion, you should put in a bugtracker project so issues with the bug tracker can be tracked. ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From mark at the-howards.net Mon Apr 14 07:06:25 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:06:25 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> References: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1cc201c89e1f$95718a00$c0549e00$@net> Hi Michael - Thanks - the 'as expected' was the subjective portion of the discussion. If by as expected you meant that the events were disappearing from the list immediately following (1 second past) the start of the event, that is not the behavior that most people would seem to expect. The block is clearly titled "Upcoming Events", and therefore in the most literal interpretation of that term, you would certainly think the prior behavior was correct, but when you consider an "All Day" event or even a timed event that spans several days, or you wanted to ensure folks knew the details about a 6 hour event occurring on the current day, the block was not as useful. What a number of people seem to need (including several of my clients) is an "Upcoming Events" block which also contains all of the day's events, even if they have started (or ended for that matter). I actually suggested a config variable, allowing both behaviors, I wouldn't propose to impose any particular strict interpretation of how this is supposed to work. BTW - I see Mantis is up, and the bug is registered (thanks Dirk!). I'd be happy to submit this as a patch, what is the methodology, and who should it be submitted to? Thanks, and best regards. -m -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Michael Jervis Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:37 AM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events I looked into it and it works as expected in current CVS. On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Mark Howard wrote: > > > > > Hi Dirk - > > > > Just a reminder - was this ever fixed? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > -m > > > > > > From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net > [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Mark Howard > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 5:15 PM > To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > Subject: [geeklog-devel] Events Block behavior for today's events > > > > Hi - > > > > Is there a mantis/bugtracker active? If not, what is the most appropriate > method to report bugs? > > > > I'd like to check to see if the Calendar plugin maintainer has updated > phpblock_calendar() for 1.5 so that it will result in the display of the > current day's events (at least as an option). The fix I have implemented > here is to change the query to utilize CURDATE() instead of NOW(), which > allows for events in the current day to be included. > > > > I know, there's a fine line between a bug and a feature request (grin), but > I guess this one is in the category of what you would think the behavior > should be from an intuitive standpoint. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -m > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mark at the-howards.net Mon Apr 14 07:09:18 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events In-Reply-To: <0JZ900KNSSXAJQD3@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> <20080413153112.1226307858@smtp.haun-online.de> <0JZ900KNSSXAJQD3@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <1cc301c89e1f$fc804a60$f580df20$@net> Hi Joe - I agree with Dirk - the use of CURDATE() provides the desired behavior. I won't dispute the fact that many other similar issues exist. ;^) -m -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Joe Mucchiello Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:42 AM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events At 11:31 AM 4/13/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: >Michael Jervis wrote: > > >I looked into it and it works as expected in current CVS. > >Hmm. I created an event for today, 2 hours in the future. It does not show up. > > SELECT * FROM gl_events WHERE dateend >= NOW(); NOW() is APR 13, 2008, 11:40:34 AM EST >does not return the event, whereas > > SELECT * FROM gl_events WHERE dateend >= CURDATE(); CURDATE() is APR 13, 2008 >does. > >So that change does seem to make sense. Doesn't exactly match my idea of >NOW(), but there you go ... NOW() and CURDATE() do different things. Event "times" in the databse as stored in two pairs of fields using separate date and time types. If the date fields were timestamps, NOW() would work as you expect. Issues like this exist throughout the calendar plugin. ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From devel at portalparts.com Mon Apr 14 08:20:40 2008 From: devel at portalparts.com (Blaine Lang) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:20:40 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: Thanks Dirk, My login worked as well. From mjervis at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 08:56:20 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:56:20 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail.com> ditto On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Blaine Lang wrote: > Thanks Dirk, > > My login worked as well. > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From mjervis at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 09:44:28 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:44:28 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] FW: Events Block behavior for today's events In-Reply-To: <1cc201c89e1f$95718a00$c0549e00$@net> References: <1a8c01c89d6a$2fe489e0$8fad9da0$@net> <7b42e7470804130736t561bb59n2cdc74bbf22745af@mail.gmail.com> <1cc201c89e1f$95718a00$c0549e00$@net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804140644u6488ef64te364fa724a3825f5@mail.gmail.com> > Thanks - the 'as expected' was the subjective portion of the discussion. Ah no, what I meant was when I tested it I thought it was working as you described. However, I think now (having re-tested it) I'd got my development environment a little confused and may have already applied the patch suggested, found it worked and thought "ah it doesn't need fixing" as I got interrupted whilst doing it. I'll look into properly making the fix this week, Cheers, Mike From mark at the-howards.net Mon Apr 14 11:32:51 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:32:51 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> Yea verily mine as well, thanks very much. Since mantis is setup as 'view-only', would you like me to either create a standard bug form for Geeklog.net which packages in an e-Mail and ships to the appropriate recipient(s)? Validated forms creation/processing is something I can do. This could be hosted on Geeklog.net, or on another (or my) site, it matters not to me, but it would be nice to have a general 'inbox' catcher for this sort of thing. The input from the form would be POSTed to my processing engine, and e-Mails would be shipped from here. Just a suggestion/offer to help - your call. Regards. -m -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Michael Jervis Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:56 AM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" ditto On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Blaine Lang wrote: > Thanks Dirk, > > My login worked as well. > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From dirk at haun-online.de Mon Apr 14 14:04:26 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:26 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail.com> <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> Message-ID: <20080414180426.1453514974@smtp.haun-online.de> Mark Howard wrote: >Since mantis is setup as 'view-only', would you like me to either create a >standard bug form for Geeklog.net which packages in an e-Mail and ships to >the appropriate recipient(s)? Validated forms creation/processing is >something I can do. Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that it's set up so that normal users can't submit bugs? If so, that obviously wasn't intended. I guess I need a test account for myself ... bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://spam.tinyweb.net/ From mark at the-howards.net Mon Apr 14 14:20:28 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:20:28 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080414180426.1453514974@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail.com> <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> <20080414180426.1453514974@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <1df401c89e5c$3823f6c0$a86be440$@net> Hi Dirk - Right - if it is, it's not intuitive (or I'm as thick as a brick, which has been proven on several occasions). ;^) -m -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Dirk Haun Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:04 PM To: geeklog-devel Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" Mark Howard wrote: >Since mantis is setup as 'view-only', would you like me to either create a >standard bug form for Geeklog.net which packages in an e-Mail and ships to >the appropriate recipient(s)? Validated forms creation/processing is >something I can do. Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that it's set up so that normal users can't submit bugs? If so, that obviously wasn't intended. I guess I need a test account for myself ... bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://spam.tinyweb.net/ _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From dirk at haun-online.de Mon Apr 14 14:37:04 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:37:04 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <1df401c89e5c$3823f6c0$a86be440$@net> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail. com> <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> <20080414180426.1453514974@smtp.haun-online.de> <1df401c89e5c$3823f6c0$a86be440$@net> Message-ID: <20080414183704.1280198354@smtp.haun-online.de> Mark Howard wrote: >Right - if it is, it's not intuitive (or I'm as thick as a brick, which has >been proven on several occasions). It looks like new accounts default to level "reporter", i.e. they can submit bugreports. Old accounts - including yours - have level "viewer" and can't. Not sure how to fix that globally, but I'll do it manually for those who've already logged in now. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From WebSiteMaster at cogeco.net Mon Apr 14 16:54:08 2008 From: WebSiteMaster at cogeco.net (Web Site Master) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:54:08 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080414183704.1280198354@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail. com> <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> <20080414180426.1453514974@smtp.haun-online.de> <1df401c89e5c$3823f6c0$a86be440$@net> <20080414183704.1280198354@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <009001c89e71$af232bf0$0d6983d0$@net> Can you change my account level too. I logged in without any other problems. Thanks Tom (account: Laugh) -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Dirk Haun Sent: April-14-08 2:37 PM To: geeklog-devel Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" Mark Howard wrote: >Right - if it is, it's not intuitive (or I'm as thick as a brick, which has >been proven on several occasions). It looks like new accounts default to level "reporter", i.e. they can submit bugreports. Old accounts - including yours - have level "viewer" and can't. Not sure how to fix that globally, but I'll do it manually for those who've already logged in now. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel __________ NOD32 3025 (20080414) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From dirk at haun-online.de Mon Apr 14 17:05:49 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:05:49 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <009001c89e71$af232bf0$0d6983d0$@net> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804140556y6ea7e2c5p83a847ab28986bd4@mail.gmail. com> <1d6901c89e44$cda4bf30$68ee3d90$@net> <20080414180426.1453514974@smtp.ha un-online.de> <1df401c89e5c$3823f6c0$a86be440$@net> <20080414183704.1280198354@smtp.haun-online.de> <009001c89e71$af232bf0$0d6983d0$@net> Message-ID: <20080414210549.1690832441@smtp.haun-online.de> Web Site Master wrote: >Can you change my account level too. I logged in without any other problems. I did already upgrade a few accounts where I recognized the names, including yours. You should see a "report issue" link. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From joe at ThrowingDice.com Mon Apr 14 19:31:57 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:31:57 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <0JZC008469DBJUA1@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> At 02:59 PM 4/13/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: >Any bugs with numbers prior to #604 should be ignored - those are the >partially ported ones. Does this mean we should re-enter old bugs? Or can we hit the re-open button? When you closed those bugs, the ones I was subscribed to sent out notifications so I can easily sift through them now. I can see argument for either choice (re-enter vs re-open) so I leave it up to you. ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From nick at nick-andrew.net Mon Apr 14 22:23:59 2008 From: nick at nick-andrew.net (Nick Andrew) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:23:59 +1000 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository Message-ID: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> I'd like to propose that geeklog moves from the current CVS system into a modern, distributed repository like Mercurial: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ or Git: http://git.or.cz/ This suggestion comes from a thread on Groklaw where Ted Powell suggests making an improvement to Groklaw's website and would happily "send code" but he cannot because Groklaw's installation of geeklog is possibly heavily modified; he has no way to know if his change against geeklog's published source code is likely to work against Groklaw. Thread: http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20080412215022427&title=PLEASE%20use%20Preview&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=689006#c689030 There are probably a large number of people who would contribute to the Groklaw site because they support Groklaw, but who cannot because the source code is not published. This problem has been completely solved in the last few years. The solution is to use a distributed SCM which allows cross-merging of changes. There are several capable systems existing, including arch, bzr, darcs, git, mercurial, monotone, and so on. I'd like to propose specifically either Git or Mercurial because I believe these are the two most popular, functional and stable systems. Wikipedia has a huge comparison table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software Git is the repository originally written for the Linux kernel; I see it as a bit more "technical" whereas Mercurial is a bit more user friendly. Both systems are fast and scale well with large numbers of managed files and large numbers of developers. There are web interfaces and development support tools; it's possible to convert a repository between various formats (although I doubt either of these systems are going to go away any time soon) and even interchange commits between them. I'll show how this process can work for geeklog. I'll use Mercurial as my example because I find it a bit more user friendly than git. First, geeklog would convert the existing CVS repository to Mercurial (also known as Hg for short). Publish the master Hg repository online, such as: http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb A developer or user would obtain a local copy of the repository by cloning it: hg clone http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb The developer can work on their local copy, committing as they go (commit is a purely local operation) and when they want to submit code back to the project they can email a patch to the master developer, or if they are a master developer themselves they can push changes (using "hg push") to the master repository. Alternately any developer can pull ("hg pull") changes from any other repository. These changes don't interfere with local changes because Hg automatically makes new branches based on the latest common revision. Branches are closed by merging two parent revisions together (Hg implements a three-way merge operation). This is the usual way that inputs from multiple developers are combined into a master repository. Meanwhile Groklaw will clone the master repository, make local changes (and commit them locally) and sometimes pull from the master repository to upgrade (e.g. to the next point-release tag). Groklaw would also publish its repository. Some Groklaw users would clone Groklaw's repository and make commits to add functionality to Groklaw. These commits can be sent (emailed or pushed) to Groklaw, and from there on to Geeklog to improve the master code base, or they can be sent directly to Geeklog. I believe that moving to a modern distributed SCM can increase the rate of development by enabling more developers to contribute and keeping the online repositories active with new changes. Just as an experiment, I have converted the geeklog 2.x CVS tree to git and published it: http://github.com/nickandrew/geeklog-2-x-sample/commits/master As I'm not familiar with the geeklog codebase I can't check the integrity of the conversion, except that I did a 'diff' between the latest checked-out CVS and the resulting git repository and the files were all the same, with one minor difference. Git and Mercurial do not manage empty directories, and geeklog has a handful of them. In short I think that it will be a benefit to geeklog to convert; the effort will be repaid quickly with increased productivity and involvement. Nick. -- PGP Key ID = 0x418487E7 http://www.nick-andrew.net/ PGP Key fingerprint = B3ED 6894 8E49 1770 C24A 67E3 6266 6EB9 4184 87E7 From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 02:24:24 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:24:24 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804142324qf00b558wed0f5399ce709564@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:23 AM, Nick Andrew wrote: > I'd like to propose that geeklog moves from the current CVS > system into a modern, distributed repository like > Mercurial: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ > or Git: http://git.or.cz/ Interesting idea, on which I would need to do more reading. But. The main problem is that Groklaw doesn't publish it's code base. The fact that Geeklog uses CVS doesn't prevent this. It's easy enough to track an external repository against a local repository, merging in your changes and publishing your source. Just because we don't use Git or Mercurial doesn't mean they can't publish their source. Switching to Git or Mercurial equally doesn't mean they will. Mike From thomas at koch.ro Tue Apr 15 02:09:01 2008 From: thomas at koch.ro (Thomas Koch) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:09:01 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> Message-ID: <200804150809.01848.thomas@koch.ro> Hi Nick, what a coincidence. Just yesterday I uploaded a CVS-GIT conversion of horde to my private server to play around with it. If somebody is interested to play around with another GIT repository: git clone http://git.koch.ro/horde/MODULENAME/.git Have a peak with the browser to see the modules. I had one problem with the conversion and maybe you could help me out: The Horde CVS repo is separated in different modules and I did not manage to get all modules in one bit git repo with git-cvsimport. Did you have problems like this? Best regards, -- Thomas Koch, Software Developer Young Media Concepts GmbH Sonnenstr. 4 CH-8280 Kreuzlingen Switzerland Tel +41 (0)71 / 508 24 86 Fax +41 (0)71 / 560 53 89 Mobile +49 (0)170 / 753 89 16 Web www.ymc.ch From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 02:39:10 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:39:10 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <200804150809.01848.thomas@koch.ro> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <200804150809.01848.thomas@koch.ro> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804142339t114d649ej9bd4809eb13efbab@mail.gmail.com> Git is "bad" on windows and from what I've just see non-extant on the Mac. Which rules it out for us (Dirk is on (spits) Mac, I'm on (spits) windows). Mercurial does work on the windows and mac, but win clients are at 0.3 From contagious at gatech.edu Tue Apr 15 02:54:13 2008 From: contagious at gatech.edu (Andre Bluehs) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:54:13 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804142339t114d649ej9bd4809eb13efbab@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <200804150809.01848.thomas@koch.ro> <7b42e7470804142339t114d649ej9bd4809eb13efbab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48045115.1040908@gatech.edu> As it turns out, i did some cursory searching about for git clients and turned up some interesting things: I was able to install Git on my MacBook Pro using the binary from here: http://metastatic.org/text/Concern/2007/08/18/git-package-for-mac-os-x/ And it seems that Git is available through cygwin in one form or another. It also appears that windows has a fancy gui. (spiffy!) I dont know if this will influence the decision one way or the other, but its food for thought. Michael Jervis wrote: > Git is "bad" on windows and from what I've just see non-extant on the > Mac. Which rules it out for us (Dirk is on (spits) Mac, I'm on (spits) > windows). > > Mercurial does work on the windows and mac, but win clients are at 0.3 > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -- ------------------------------------- Andre Bluehs || contagious at gatech.edu ------------------------------------- From info at heatherengineering.com Tue Apr 15 02:54:36 2008 From: info at heatherengineering.com (Euan McKay) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:54:36 +0900 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804142339t114d649ej9bd4809eb13efbab@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <200804150809.01848.thomas@koch.ro> <7b42e7470804142339t114d649ej9bd4809eb13efbab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I use git on a Mac to manage plugin development with no problems. In particular, TextMate with a Git bundle installed. Install took all of two minutes or so (mostly download time). Cheers, Euan. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Michael Jervis wrote: > Git is "bad" on windows and from what I've just see non-extant on the > Mac. Which rules it out for us (Dirk is on (spits) Mac, I'm on (spits) > windows). > > Mercurial does work on the windows and mac, but win clients are at 0.3 > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Euan McKay PhD Candidate in International Relations Department of Advanced Social and International Studies Graduate School of Arts and Sciences The University of Tokyo From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 04:20:56 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:20:56 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <200804150809.01848.thomas@koch.ro> <7b42e7470804142339t114d649ej9bd4809eb13efbab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804150120h7664a7eai4f9e288dda91fb95@mail.gmail.com> Ah, in that case, I suggest you update wikipedia! Mike From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Tue Apr 15 08:06:45 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:06:45 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F111EA0@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> Hmm. Just thinking out loud here: By switching to any other SCM, aren't you just trading one set of politics for another? Git would surely distribute the ability to code across many people - however the maintainer of the official code base will still pull from only those who he/she trusts. People *COULD* pull from a Groklaw Git node, but that would not be an official codebase for Geeklog. There would be cries of "FOUL!" when the maintainers don't pull patches from some good soldier's Git repository -- same thing already happens today with Geeklog + CVS (The cries of "But I posted patch XYZ and it didn't make it in the final release"). However CVS is just plain terrible for merging of code. So even "upgrading" to SVN would be better. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Andrew [mailto:nick at nick-andrew.net] > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:24 PM > To: Geeklog Developers List > Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository > > > I'd like to propose that geeklog moves from the current CVS > system into a modern, distributed repository like > Mercurial: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ > or Git: http://git.or.cz/ > > This suggestion comes from a thread on Groklaw where Ted > Powell suggests making an improvement to Groklaw's website > and would happily "send code" but he cannot because Groklaw's > installation of geeklog is possibly heavily modified; he has > no way to know if his change against geeklog's published > source code is likely to work against Groklaw. > > Thread: > http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=2008041221 > 5022427&title=PLEASE%20use%20Preview&type=article&order=&hidea > nonymous=0&pid=689006#c689030 > > There are probably a large number of people who would > contribute to the Groklaw site because they support Groklaw, > but who cannot because the source code is not published. > > This problem has been completely solved in the last few > years. The solution is to use a distributed SCM which allows > cross-merging of changes. There are several capable systems > existing, including arch, bzr, darcs, git, mercurial, > monotone, and so on. I'd like to propose specifically either > Git or Mercurial because I believe these are the two most > popular, functional and stable systems. > > Wikipedia has a huge comparison table: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software > > Git is the repository originally written for the Linux > kernel; I see it as a bit more "technical" whereas Mercurial > is a bit more user friendly. Both systems are fast and scale > well with large numbers of managed files and large numbers of > developers. There are web interfaces and development support > tools; it's possible to convert a repository between various > formats (although I doubt either of these systems are going > to go away any time soon) and even interchange commits between them. > > I'll show how this process can work for geeklog. I'll use > Mercurial as my example because I find it a bit more user > friendly than git. > > First, geeklog would convert the existing CVS repository to > Mercurial (also known as Hg for short). Publish the master Hg > repository online, such as: http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb > > A developer or user would obtain a local copy of the > repository by cloning it: > > hg clone http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb > > The developer can work on their local copy, committing as > they go (commit is a purely local operation) and when they > want to submit code back to the project they can email a > patch to the master developer, or if they are a master > developer themselves they can push changes (using "hg push") > to the master repository. Alternately any developer can pull > ("hg pull") changes from any other repository. > > These changes don't interfere with local changes because Hg > automatically makes new branches based on the latest common > revision. Branches are closed by merging two parent revisions > together (Hg implements a three-way merge operation). This is > the usual way that inputs from multiple developers are > combined into a master repository. > > Meanwhile Groklaw will clone the master repository, make > local changes (and commit them locally) and sometimes pull > from the master repository to upgrade (e.g. to the next > point-release tag). Groklaw would also publish its repository. > > Some Groklaw users would clone Groklaw's repository and make > commits to add functionality to Groklaw. These commits can be > sent (emailed or > pushed) to Groklaw, and from there on to Geeklog to improve > the master code base, or they can be sent directly to Geeklog. > > I believe that moving to a modern distributed SCM can > increase the rate of development by enabling more developers > to contribute and keeping the online repositories active with > new changes. > > Just as an experiment, I have converted the geeklog 2.x CVS > tree to git and published it: > > http://github.com/nickandrew/geeklog-2-x-sample/commits/master > > As I'm not familiar with the geeklog codebase I can't check > the integrity of the conversion, except that I did a 'diff' > between the latest checked-out CVS and the resulting git > repository and the files were all the same, with one minor > difference. Git and Mercurial do not manage empty > directories, and geeklog has a handful of them. > > In short I think that it will be a benefit to geeklog to > convert; the effort will be repaid quickly with increased > productivity and involvement. > > Nick. > -- > PGP Key ID = 0x418487E7 > http://www.nick-andrew.net/ > PGP Key fingerprint = B3ED 6894 8E49 1770 C24A 67E3 6266 > 6EB9 4184 87E7 _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From trinity93 at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 09:18:45 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:18:45 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> Message-ID: In my opinion K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid) is the way to go. Changeing over to any other system has severial issues to it. 1. Learning curve: Learning the ins and outs of a new system takes time and effort. this takes away from working on geeklog 2. End user client support and availability: Are there good reliable clients for each platform generically used? Is end user support gonna be a nightmare? 3. Setting up the new system to begin with and maintaining it: Installation, locating resources, and maintaining the system takes time. Who is gona do it? 4. Versioning system reliability (bugs in the versioning system): Is the system reliable, well tested and secure? How do we determine that? 5. What do we really gain from doing this, and what do we loose? To be honest I some times wish CVS did more, but when i look at other solutions i see bloat and complicated untested features that only work in crude command line only fashion with very little or poorly writen documentation. SVN looks promising as a replacement option due to its similarity to CVS and uptake by the community at large. I think this conversation shouldn't be taken further right now. 1.5 needs to get out into the publics hands first. ;-) -Trinity On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Nick Andrew wrote: > I'd like to propose that geeklog moves from the current CVS > system into a modern, distributed repository like > Mercurial: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ > or Git: http://git.or.cz/ > > This suggestion comes from a thread on Groklaw where Ted Powell > suggests making an improvement to Groklaw's website and would > happily "send code" but he cannot because Groklaw's installation > of geeklog is possibly heavily modified; he has no way to know > if his change against geeklog's published source code is likely > to work against Groklaw. > > Thread: > http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20080412215022427&title=PLEASE%20use%20Preview&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=689006#c689030 > > There are probably a large number of people who would contribute > to the Groklaw site because they support Groklaw, but who > cannot because the source code is not published. > > This problem has been completely solved in the last few years. > The solution is to use a distributed SCM which allows cross-merging > of changes. There are several capable systems existing, including > arch, bzr, darcs, git, mercurial, monotone, and so on. I'd like to > propose specifically either Git or Mercurial because I believe > these are the two most popular, functional and stable systems. > > Wikipedia has a huge comparison table: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software > > Git is the repository originally written for the Linux kernel; I see > it as a bit more "technical" whereas Mercurial is a bit more user > friendly. Both systems are fast and scale well with large numbers of > managed files and large numbers of developers. There are web > interfaces and development support tools; it's possible to convert > a repository between various formats (although I doubt either of > these systems are going to go away any time soon) and even > interchange commits between them. > > I'll show how this process can work for geeklog. I'll use Mercurial > as my example because I find it a bit more user friendly than git. > > First, geeklog would convert the existing CVS repository to Mercurial > (also known as Hg for short). Publish the master Hg repository online, > such as: http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb > > A developer or user would obtain a local copy of the repository > by cloning it: > > hg clone http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb > > The developer can work on their local copy, committing as they go > (commit is a purely local operation) and when they want to submit > code back to the project they can email a patch to the master > developer, or if they are a master developer themselves they can > push changes (using "hg push") to the master repository. Alternately > any developer can pull ("hg pull") changes from any other > repository. > > These changes don't interfere with local changes because Hg automatically > makes new branches based on the latest common revision. Branches are > closed by merging two parent revisions together (Hg implements a > three-way merge operation). This is the usual way that inputs from > multiple developers are combined into a master repository. > > Meanwhile Groklaw will clone the master repository, make local changes > (and commit them locally) and sometimes pull from the master repository > to upgrade (e.g. to the next point-release tag). Groklaw would also > publish its repository. > > Some Groklaw users would clone Groklaw's repository and make commits > to add functionality to Groklaw. These commits can be sent (emailed or > pushed) to Groklaw, and from there on to Geeklog to improve the master > code base, or they can be sent directly to Geeklog. > > I believe that moving to a modern distributed SCM can increase the rate > of development by enabling more developers to contribute and keeping > the online repositories active with new changes. > > Just as an experiment, I have converted the geeklog 2.x CVS tree to > git and published it: > > http://github.com/nickandrew/geeklog-2-x-sample/commits/master > > As I'm not familiar with the geeklog codebase I can't check the > integrity of the conversion, except that I did a 'diff' between the > latest checked-out CVS and the resulting git repository and the files > were all the same, with one minor difference. Git and Mercurial do not > manage empty directories, and geeklog has a handful of them. > > In short I think that it will be a benefit to geeklog to convert; the > effort will be repaid quickly with increased productivity and involvement. > > Nick. > -- > PGP Key ID = 0x418487E7 http://www.nick-andrew.net/ > PGP Key fingerprint = B3ED 6894 8E49 1770 C24A 67E3 6266 6EB9 4184 87E7 > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 14:55:14 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:55:14 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804151155j4b674f7dmd11e539c50a49335@mail.gmail.com> > To be honest I some times wish CVS did more, but when i look at other > solutions i see bloat and complicated untested features that only work in > crude command line only fashion with very little or poorly writen > documentation. SVN looks promising as a replacement option due to its > similarity to CVS and uptake by the community at large. SVN is just a better version of CVS really. The windows clients are more mature and much nicer than the CVS alternatives. The server runs flawlessly. The features are slightly different but a bit "better" than CVS. I've been using SVN extensively at work with a team of 60 for nearly 2 years now. Plus a lot of work using CVS outside of work. I'd go with SVN anytime now. Mike From dirk at haun-online.de Tue Apr 15 15:37:57 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:37:57 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804151155j4b674f7dmd11e539c50a49335@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <7b42e7470804151155j4b674f7dmd11e539c50a49335@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080415193757.1972715773@smtp.haun-online.de> Michael Jervis wrote: >SVN is just a better version of CVS really. Which, IIRC, was their stated goal. Not much of a vision, though, and not that hard to achieve either. >I'd go with SVN anytime now. SVN has two main advantages over CVS: 1) You can rename / move files 2) Atomic commits On the other hand, you lose some handy minor feature like proper labels or being able to actually remove revisions. Sure, for a new project I would also select SVN over CVS (if those were the only available options). But as long as 1) and 2) are not that important (e.g. for Geeklog's current development process), upgrading to SVN "just because" doesn't really buy you anything. A DVCS, on the other hand, is a completely different animal - and allows a different way of working. We have in fact been discussing using a DVCS on and off for as far back as last year's Mentor Summit. I have just recently attended a presentation[1] about DVCS again, and in that session, the presenters and the audience discussed the benefits and problems of various systems. The conclusion was something along these lines: - git can do pretty much everything, but it's a system by geeks for geeks, so it may not always be obvious - bazaar has the potential of becoming everybody's first choice simply due to its backing (by Canonical and the Ubuntu community) - mercurial may be the underdog here but may be worth a look as it has some advantages over the other two (and it also has backing by Sun now) Other systems (see the slides if interested) were also discussed but considered to be either not there yet or too far behind already. I would love playing around with these systems but haven't had the time yet. Plus, to really appreciate them, you need a non-trivial code base. Importers from CVS are available for all of them, though. This is actually something that we should discuss with the Summer of Code in mind. Last year, we made the mistake of giving CVS access too late, which resulted in some merging pains later on. With a DCVS, students could work on their local repository, pull from the main repository, and the eventual push upwards should be much easier since these systems are designed with branching and merging in mind. Food for thought ... bye, Dirk [1] -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://geeklog.info/ From chipper at llamas.net Wed Apr 16 10:47:09 2008 From: chipper at llamas.net (Chris 'Chipper' Chiapusio) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:47:09 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080416144709.GA1426@chipsworld.llamas.net> On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 09:13:10AM -0600, Eric Warren wrote: > In light of this discussion, I'll give this one last try... :-) > > Please take a look at [1]http://nouveau.gllabs.org. > > Perhaps a [2]geeklog.net site re-design would help with that perception. > > Thx! > > Eric > I saw noone respond to your post on-list. This is the most gorgeous layout i've ever seen. Chip -- ------ **** Warning **** This e-mail message, without warrant or warning, and despite US law as set forth in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, may be subject to monitoring by the United States National Security Agency and/or the Department of Defense. Information contained in this message may be used against any senders or recipients, now or in the future, in a public trial or secret tribunal. Please encrypt anything important. PGP Key: http://wwwkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6CFA486D From eakwarren at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 11:11:53 2008 From: eakwarren at gmail.com (Eric Warren) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:11:53 -0600 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Perception is everything... In-Reply-To: <20080416144709.GA1426@chipsworld.llamas.net> References: <871949.57171.qm@web704.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50aae8730804090739h6fa3aad1w7a94dd74d5e90b3e@mail.gmail.com> <20080416144709.GA1426@chipsworld.llamas.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the kind words Chip! Currently we're just finishing up the documentation (http://www.gllabs.org/wiki/doku.php?id=geeklog:themes:nouveau) and tying together the last few ends. Our hope is to release a 1.4.1 compatible version shortly, and a 1.5 version in tandem (or shortly thereafter) with the 1.5 release. Stay tuned to www.gllabs.org for news on more exciting developments on the horizon! :-) Thx! Eric On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Chris 'Chipper' Chiapusio < chipper at llamas.net> wrote: > > I saw noone respond to your post on-list. This is the most gorgeous > layout > i've ever seen. > > Chip > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nick at nick-andrew.net Wed Apr 16 13:14:31 2008 From: nick at nick-andrew.net (Nick Andrew) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:14:31 +1000 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <20080415193757.1972715773@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <7b42e7470804151155j4b674f7dmd11e539c50a49335@mail.gmail.com> <20080415193757.1972715773@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <20080416171430.GA19875@tull.net> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:37:57PM +0200, Dirk Haun wrote: > SVN has two main advantages over CVS: > > 1) You can rename / move files > 2) Atomic commits Also file (or tree) copy is a cheap operation and SVN supports metadata through named properties. SVN is a big advantage over CVS for all these reasons. Oh, and SVN has one unique feature that all the distributed SCMs lack, and that is you can checkout a subset of the tree (like one directory and everything underneath) and work with that subset with no need to check out the rest of the tree. In fact SVN needs this because their tags and branches are implemented as copies; if you couldn't check out and work with just the trunk or just a branch, you'd be checking out every branch and tag there ever was, with possibly hundreds of copies of your files on your disk. I have a lot of personal and professional experience with SVN, and Git and Mercurial are light-years ahead of it. I have a repository with over 40,000 commits in it, migrated from RCS to CVS to SVN through the years. There are over 100 branches. SVN is reliably managing this code, but it is also slow and merging of changes from the branches into the trunk loses the individual commits in the branch. Thus it has become difficult for us to track with precision the individual code changes and commit messages. > We have in fact been discussing using a DVCS on and off for as far back > as last year's Mentor Summit. I have just recently attended a > presentation[1] about DVCS again, and in that session, the presenters > and the audience discussed the benefits and problems of various systems. > The conclusion was something along these lines: > > - git can do pretty much everything, but it's a system by geeks for > geeks, so it may not always be obvious That's the way it seems to me. I don't know if Git has any graphical frontend for Windows users, but Mercurial has TortoiseHg. For me using Linux, Mercurial is already very friendly at the command line. > - bazaar has the potential of becoming everybody's first choice simply > due to its backing (by Canonical and the Ubuntu community) I haven't used bazaar, but the popularity of the other SCMs ensures that there will be choice for years to come. Conversion tools will migrate repositories from one format to another so whatever choice you make doesn't even have to be final. I am currently converting the abovementioned 40,000 commits repository from git to SVN, as a test. It takes only _one_ command. I expect the resulting git repository will faithfully represent every single commit from the SVN repository, but I doubt that even git-svn can figure out in what revisions various branches were merged back into trunk, because SVN itself doesn't keep that information. > - mercurial may be the underdog here but may be worth a look as it has > some advantages over the other two (and it also has backing by Sun now) The stacked patch systems are an add-on to Git (StGit, Guilt and Quilt) but built in to Mercurial (MQ). Git's SVN converter is top-notch because you can also contribute commits back into SVN. I've used Mercurial's converters for SVN and CVS. The LinuxTV team use Mercurial for their codebase even though other kernel developers use Git; they also publish a Git repository of their master repository anyway. > This is actually something that we should discuss with the Summer of > Code in mind. Last year, we made the mistake of giving CVS access too > late, which resulted in some merging pains later on. If you're going to have several people working on the codebase all at once then you need to make it easy for them, i.e. easy sync-up with other peoples' repositories and merging. > With a DCVS, students could work on their local repository, pull from > the main repository, and the eventual push upwards should be much easier > since these systems are designed with branching and merging in mind. Yes, quite. But in the 'eventual push upwards' think that the students can pull the latest from the master, do their own merge and then you can pull already-merged code from them. Repeat 'N' times for N students and you will notice the merge is not a problem for you at all because the students can actually take responsibility for it themselves. Nick. From geeklog at thehares.com Wed Apr 16 07:12:16 2008 From: geeklog at thehares.com (Jeff Hare) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:12:16 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804151155j4b674f7dmd11e539c50a49335@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080415022359.GB21254@tull.net> <7b42e7470804151155j4b674f7dmd11e539c50a49335@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c89fb2$bc704ad0$3550e070$@com> SVN & CVS both have Tortoise support (TortoiseCVS and TortoiseSVN) which are both great and unobtrusive us windoze people. :) I'd suggest we just stick with CVS since 99.9% of us only have permission to fetch the code anyway. SVN's terrible at managing merges between branches, but other than that, it's quite nice. -Jeff -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Michael Jervis Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:55 PM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository > To be honest I some times wish CVS did more, but when i look at other > solutions i see bloat and complicated untested features that only work in > crude command line only fashion with very little or poorly writen > documentation. SVN looks promising as a replacement option due to its > similarity to CVS and uptake by the community at large. SVN is just a better version of CVS really. The windows clients are more mature and much nicer than the CVS alternatives. The server runs flawlessly. The features are slightly different but a bit "better" than CVS. I've been using SVN extensively at work with a team of 60 for nearly 2 years now. Plus a lot of work using CVS outside of work. I'd go with SVN anytime now. Mike _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From dirk at haun-online.de Thu Apr 17 14:22:52 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:22:52 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> Dirk Haun wrote: >Feel free to enter any issues that you are aware of and let me know if >anything doesn't work as expected - I'll see what I can do. For now, >this should be considered "beta" (or even "experimental") but I figured >it would be better than nothing ... Just checking: Do people get emails from the bugtracker when an issue changes, gets a comment, is assigned to someone, ...? bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://spam.tinyweb.net/ From mjervis at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 14:29:22 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:29:22 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804171129te7928c9ube17e3f0b1d2c423@mail.gmail.com> > Just checking: Do people get emails from the bugtracker when an issue > changes, gets a comment, is assigned to someone, ...? I did,but then you disabled my duplicate account and I've just found I can't login with either account now! From dirk at haun-online.de Thu Apr 17 14:37:35 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:37:35 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804171129te7928c9ube17e3f0b1d2c423@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804171129te7928c9ube17e3f0b1d2c423@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080417183735.1442251358@smtp.haun-online.de> Michael Jervis wrote: >I did,but then you disabled my duplicate account and I've just found I >can't login with either account now! Hmm? I deleted the duplicate account, but THEMike is still there, enabled, and with access level "developer". If you can't request a new password, let me know. There's a "Reset Password" button here that I haven't tried yet, which says "Reset Password sends the confirmation URL via email." bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/accu/ From mjervis at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 14:39:06 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:39:06 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080417183735.1442251358@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> <7b42e7470804171129te7928c9ube17e3f0b1d2c423@mail.gmail.com> <20080417183735.1442251358@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804171139i2f30472fv359780b2d02a509@mail.gmail.com> > Hmm? I deleted the duplicate account, but THEMike is still there, > enabled, and with access level "developer". Ok it may have been my fingers. Working now. Cheers, Mike From joe at ThrowingDice.com Thu Apr 17 15:22:18 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:22:18 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <0JZH00K6QHT6TZT0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> At 02:22 PM 4/17/2008, Dirk Haun wrote: >Dirk Haun wrote: > > >Feel free to enter any issues that you are aware of and let me know if > >anything doesn't work as expected - I'll see what I can do. For now, > >this should be considered "beta" (or even "experimental") but I figured > >it would be better than nothing ... > >Just checking: Do people get emails from the bugtracker when an issue >changes, gets a comment, is assigned to someone, ...? As I said on the 14th, I received emails when you closed the old issues. I asked if we should reopen or re-enter appropriate old issues. ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From matt.danger.west at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 14:28:25 2008 From: matt.danger.west at gmail.com (Matt West) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:28:25 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <65A670B2-DD03-42B1-8DE4-692B82C0AD95@gmail.com> Yep, I just received an email saying a task has been assigned to me and another saying a note had been left on it. Thanks, Matt On Apr 17, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Dirk Haun wrote: > Dirk Haun wrote: > >> Feel free to enter any issues that you are aware of and let me know >> if >> anything doesn't work as expected - I'll see what I can do. For now, >> this should be considered "beta" (or even "experimental") but I >> figured >> it would be better than nothing ... > > Just checking: Do people get emails from the bugtracker when an issue > changes, gets a comment, is assigned to someone, ...? > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.haun-online.de/ > http://spam.tinyweb.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From dirk at haun-online.de Thu Apr 17 15:48:11 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:48:11 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Bugtracker "Beta Test" In-Reply-To: <65A670B2-DD03-42B1-8DE4-692B82C0AD95@gmail.com> References: <20080413185920.934790234@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080417182252.551631621@smtp.haun-online.de> <65A670B2-DD03-42B1-8DE4-692B82C0AD95@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080417194811.1418531009@smtp.haun-online.de> Matt West wrote: >Yep, I just received an email saying a task has been assigned to me >and another saying a note had been left on it. Thanks. Just wanted to make sure the system is sending out emails to the people who should get them. I've re-assigned that bug to me, btw, since there seems to be something wrong _after_ the install. You know about the missing UTF-8 option in the install anyway. bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://geeklog.info/ From mjervis at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 11:45:07 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:45:07 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Plugin Management Message-ID: <7b42e7470804190845n4d33609an8aba438cc17c9ad8@mail.gmail.com> Committed changes to plugin management. These require changes to themes. So if you find plugin management not working for you, please update your theme. Mike -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From dirk at haun-online.de Sat Apr 19 13:45:31 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:45:31 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <20080419174531.626948058@smtp.haun-online.de> Dirk Haun wrote: >Can someone with an MS SQL setup please test if a fresh install works >now? Hmm. No one? bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From tony at tonybibbs.com Mon Apr 21 15:27:26 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES Message-ID: <97856.27499.qm@web708.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't remember where that ended up but I do recall Dirk mentioning this not too long ago. GL 2 is using KSES too. Justin has agreed to patch the current PHP5 version we have and get it to you guys. Assuming you are all dropping PHP4 support you are done but, if not, then you'll need to back port it to PHP4. I'm sure we could at least provide a diff to make this easier if required. --Tony From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 01:48:35 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:48:35 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES In-Reply-To: <97856.27499.qm@web708.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <97856.27499.qm@web708.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804212248p62620103n8dfcb25697787d9a@mail.gmail.com> Tony, why still using KSES? Given it's an abandoned project that's not maintained we'll have repeats of this for all time won't we? Why not HTML Purifier or something else? Of course, happy to have your patched version ;-) On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > I don't remember where that ended up but I do recall Dirk mentioning this not too long ago. GL 2 is using KSES too. Justin has agreed to patch the current PHP5 version we have and get it to you guys. Assuming you are all dropping PHP4 support you are done but, if not, then you'll need to back port it to PHP4. I'm sure we could at least provide a diff to make this easier if required. > > --Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 02:38:14 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:38:14 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Open Search API Message-ID: <7b42e7470804212338p1e418d7ep34da7893693e16d@mail.gmail.com> Just thought, it would be /really/ nice to see support for auto-install of a firefox search option for any Geeklog site via the OpenSearch API. Looking at Wikipedia, you need to add a header: And a small packet of XML: Wikipedia (en) Wikipedia (en) http://en.wikipedia.org/favicon.ico And then it's done. When you visit Wikipedia, the downarrow on the search selector goes blue and you can just add that site. Maybe the guy doing the GSoC could add that too? -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 03:45:54 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:45:54 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sql mssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <20080419174531.626948058@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080412143734.60D1A10FE12@qs1489.pair.com> <20080412145205.928889395@smtp.haun-online.de> <20080419174531.626948058@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804220045y2571ce20h8869d3d5ec9d875f@mail.gmail.com> Installed SQL Server 2005 Express on my box at work. I can't get it to connect at all. SQL Server 2005 installs as a Named Instance (SQLExpress) and despite enabling TCP/IP communications protocol and configuring it to listen on a specific port and specifying a specific port on the hostname following the correct mssql_connect parameters, it won't connect to the server. I /could/ try installing a database on one of our development instances (since I'm r00t) at work and hope no-one notices me breaking my own rules, but they all require integrated authentication. Which mssql in PHP doesn't support. So I give in. From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Tue Apr 22 07:06:51 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:06:51 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CF7@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> Have you tried the latest PHP SQL server driver from Microsoft? http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=85f99a70-5df5-4 558-991f-8aee8506833c&displaylang=en > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Jervis [mailto:mjervis at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:46 AM > To: Geeklog Development > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] > Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 > > > Installed SQL Server 2005 Express on my box at work. > > I can't get it to connect at all. SQL Server 2005 installs as > a Named Instance (SQLExpress) and despite enabling TCP/IP > communications protocol and configuring it to listen on a > specific port and specifying a specific port on the hostname > following the correct mssql_connect parameters, it won't > connect to the server. > > I /could/ try installing a database on one of our development > instances (since I'm r00t) at work and hope no-one notices me > breaking my own rules, but they all require integrated > authentication. Which mssql in PHP doesn't support. > > So I give in. > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 07:42:25 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:42:25 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs] Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CF7@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> References: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CF7@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804220442v5ed1f2aesfe65481de1a2bc2d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Randy Kolenko wrote: > Have you tried the latest PHP SQL server driver from Microsoft? I think the problem is the named instance, even if you connect on a given port number, you still need to be asking for the named instance, and the PHP functions don't support this so I doubt that will do anything. I'm looking to see if I can install without a named instance. From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Tue Apr 22 07:39:45 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:39:45 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CF9@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> The hostname parameter should allow you to use 'SQLEXPRESS/instancename' > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Jervis [mailto:mjervis at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:42 AM > To: Geeklog Development > Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] > [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Randy Kolenko > wrote: > > Have you tried the latest PHP SQL server driver from Microsoft? > > I think the problem is the named instance, even if you > connect on a given port number, you still need to be asking > for the named instance, and the PHP functions don't support > this so I doubt that will do anything. I'm looking to see if > I can install without a named instance. > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 08:22:39 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:22:39 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CF9@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> References: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269CF9@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804220522y4b6808f9if7b87e0e90071b5f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Randy Kolenko wrote: > The hostname parameter should allow you to use 'SQLEXPRESS/instancename' I tried that this morning and it didn't work, I'm sure, but now with the new driver it did. So far, there are a number of errors in the script, I've fixed them and got on to one that is confusing me, and I've run out of lunch time: The statement has been terminated. - INSERT INTO gl_vars (name, value) VALUES ('totalhits','0') ; select SCOPE_IDENTITY() The identity is on the [name] column. The inserts for the vars table are: $_SQL[] = "INSERT INTO {$_TABLES['vars']} (name, value) VALUES ('totalhits','0')"; $_SQL[] = "INSERT INTO {$_TABLES['vars']} (name, value) VALUES ('lastemailedstories','')"; $_SQL[] = "INSERT INTO {$_TABLES['vars']} (name, value) VALUES ('last_scheduled_run','')"; $_SQL[] = "INSERT INTO {$_TABLES['vars']} (name, value) VALUES ('spamx.counter','0')"; No inserts on that table work. I have the same with trackbackcodes and dateCommandCrossReference too. If I can resolve them, the install "appears" to work (subject to testing the app...) Mike From nick at nick-andrew.net Tue Apr 22 20:59:24 2008 From: nick at nick-andrew.net (Nick Andrew) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:59:24 +1000 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Upgrade CVS to a distributed repository In-Reply-To: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F111EA0@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> References: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F111EA0@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> Message-ID: <20080423005924.GB7959@tull.net> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:06:45AM -0400, Randy Kolenko wrote: > Hmm. Just thinking out loud here: By switching to any other SCM, > aren't you just trading one set of politics for another? The tool doesn't dictate the politics, but more the other way around. I think of it as openness toward contributions and customisation. Closed source software may distribute as binaries only; they're actively discouraging changes and contributions. Distribution in tarfiles provides people with the source code but there's no support for upgrading (each release tarfile is distinct) and no structure within which people can contribute. Exposing a CVS or SVN repository gives people read-only access to the code as it is being developed. It's a step forward; somebody can stick to released versions or upgrade to the latest HEAD frequently. However there's still no support in the tool for a person's local changes. With SVN and CVS you can make local changes and when you do an "update" the tool will merge the repository changes with your uncommitted changes (and you get to resolve conflicts). But there's no support for change control on a person's own commits. When I make local changes to some open source project I like my changes to be under change control as well. I want to be able to merge in updates from the source without the chance of blowing my own changes away. If the project itself uses a distributed SCM then that problem is solved. And if I want to contribute to the project then the distributed SCM gives me a framework in which to do so. > Git would surely distribute the ability to code across many people - > however the maintainer of the official code base will still pull from > only those who he/she trusts. If you are talking about bulk changes then yes, trust is important if you're not going to review the changes individually. It's all about review; for individual one-off patches what's important is that the patch should work and it should advance the state of the code base in the direction you want it to go. > People *COULD* pull from a Groklaw Git node, but that would not be an > official codebase for Geeklog. It would be an official codebase for Groklaw though, and the people who would be using it would be primarily assisting Groklaw, however due to the magic of DSCMs, any changes which are applicable to Geeklog can be picked out and integrated upstream. > There would be cries of "FOUL!" when the maintainers don't pull patches > from some good soldier's Git repository -- same thing already happens > today with Geeklog + CVS (The cries of "But I posted patch XYZ and it > didn't make it in the final release"). You see, the politics is more inherent to the project than the tool. The distributed SCMs provide a framework to deal with that kind of issue. The maintainers might say "Patch XYZ isn't suitable as it stands, but if you fix this and refactor that, we'll reconsider" and the person who writes the patch can easily modify it and send out another revision (as a single patch, as opposed to sending a bad patch and then a fixup patch for the bad one). > However CVS is just plain terrible for merging of code. So even > "upgrading" to SVN would be better. SVN isn't all that crash hot with merging either :-( Nick. -- PGP Key ID = 0x418487E7 http://www.nick-andrew.net/ PGP Key fingerprint = B3ED 6894 8E49 1770 C24A 67E3 6266 6EB9 4184 87E7 From tony at tonybibbs.com Thu Apr 24 13:23:38 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES Message-ID: <713293.9223.qm@web707.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The notion of whitelisting is an approach I like for this sort of stuff...assume all HTML is bad unless told otherwise. Couple it with a tool like Flexy that hates JS by default and you have the underpinnings of a system that enforces some notion of security on developers. The library is a single class file so it hardly constitutes a "project". Anything we'd do with HTML Purifier would include a class to use it, right? So one file (KSES) or multiple files (KSES replacement class that uses HTML Purifier + all the HTML Purifier files). Am I missing something? I want to be sure I'm not missing something. I'm also all ears on other alternatives. Back in the day when I use to really code in my free time I'd go see how some of the other CMS projects do this but I'm lacking that time. If someone wants to sign up to do just some basic browsing CVS/SVN trees for other projects I'd be willing to hold off doing anything with KSES. To be clear, though, KSES is one of the things holding up our GL2 alpha. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Jervis To: Geeklog Development Cc: Justin Carlson Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:48:35 AM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] KSES Tony, why still using KSES? Given it's an abandoned project that's not maintained we'll have repeats of this for all time won't we? Why not HTML Purifier or something else? Of course, happy to have your patched version ;-) On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > I don't remember where that ended up but I do recall Dirk mentioning this not too long ago. GL 2 is using KSES too. Justin has agreed to patch the current PHP5 version we have and get it to you guys. Assuming you are all dropping PHP4 support you are done but, if not, then you'll need to back port it to PHP4. I'm sure we could at least provide a diff to make this easier if required. > > --Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mjervis at gmail.com Fri Apr 25 02:38:40 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:38:40 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES In-Reply-To: <713293.9223.qm@web707.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <713293.9223.qm@web707.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804242338o29f26d6ak4f73062ebb5f76a9@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > The notion of whitelisting is an approach I like for this sort of stuff... HTML Purifier is a white-list based approach. > The library is a single class file so it hardly constitutes a "project". Semantics! KSES is not maintained, so the GL/GL2 projects would have to maintain our own version. And fix all security issues. HTML Purifier is an active project and used by the Zend Framework, so will continue to be maintained for a long time and actively developed to protect against new and evolving attack vectors. > Anything we'd do with HTML Purifier would include a class to use it, right? HTML Purifier is an Object Oriented PHP5 solution. (They have a PHP4 port too). > So one file (KSES) or multiple files (KSES replacement class that uses HTML Purifier + all > the HTML Purifier files). HTML Purifier ships with a drop in replacement function for the original procedural distro that replaces calls to kses() with marshalling of HTML Purifier. Might be trivial to replace the GL1 KSES (class) approach with a wrapper to HTML Purifier. > Am I missing something? I want to be sure I'm not missing something. http://htmlpurifier.org/comparison.html KSES: + We have experience with it. - It's not maintained at all HTML Purifier: + It's actively maintained (and used by the Zend Framework) + It's OO PHP5 + It enforces standards compliant HTML - We have no experience with it. I'd go with an adapter class around HTML Purifier, then you are not tied to a given framework and when there is a new hotness it can be swapped out. Or, can the GL2 Framework support completely plugin driven purification? Cheers, Mike From joe at throwingdice.com Fri Apr 25 03:13:34 2008 From: joe at throwingdice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:13:34 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] PLG_afterSaveSwitch Message-ID: <0JZV006GSDEUN2V0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> There's no reason the 'home' and 'admin' methods need to use a generic message. case 'home': // the plugins messages are not available, use generic $url = $_CONF['site_url'] . '/index.php?msg=15'; break; case 'admin': // the plugins messages are not available, use generic $url = $_CONF['site_admin_url'] . '/moderation.php?msg=15'; break; They could say: $url = $_CONF['site_url'] . '/index.php'; if (!empty($msg)) { $url .= '?' . $msg . '&plugin=' . $plugin; } The message is going to be processed by COM_showMessage and that function knows to look for the plugin parameter. public_html/admin/moderation.php would need to have the code to process plugin= found in public_html/index.php added to it around line 648: if (isset ($_GET['msg'])) { $plugin = ''; if (isset ($_GET['plugin'])) { $plugin = COM_applyFilter ($_GET['plugin']); } $display .= COM_showMessage (COM_applyFilter ($_GET['msg'], true), $plugin); } (And while you are looking at moderation.php, modify line 209 as follows: $retval .= $admin_templates->finish($admin_templates->parse('output','cc')); ) ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From tony at tonybibbs.com Fri Apr 25 09:49:54 2008 From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES Message-ID: <890983.41575.qm@web706.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah, took a look at what you sent and the site you gave did mention a few other noteable CMS type things that use it (one of my other points). That with what you sent below and I think I'm convinced. My biggest gripe was that KSES is a single file...HTML Purifier is a true library with lots of files but they do a "stand alone" version which puts as much of the features into as few files as possible. Thanks, Michael. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Jervis To: Geeklog Development Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:38:40 AM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] KSES On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > The notion of whitelisting is an approach I like for this sort of stuff... HTML Purifier is a white-list based approach. > The library is a single class file so it hardly constitutes a "project". Semantics! KSES is not maintained, so the GL/GL2 projects would have to maintain our own version. And fix all security issues. HTML Purifier is an active project and used by the Zend Framework, so will continue to be maintained for a long time and actively developed to protect against new and evolving attack vectors. > Anything we'd do with HTML Purifier would include a class to use it, right? HTML Purifier is an Object Oriented PHP5 solution. (They have a PHP4 port too). > So one file (KSES) or multiple files (KSES replacement class that uses HTML Purifier + all > the HTML Purifier files). HTML Purifier ships with a drop in replacement function for the original procedural distro that replaces calls to kses() with marshalling of HTML Purifier. Might be trivial to replace the GL1 KSES (class) approach with a wrapper to HTML Purifier. > Am I missing something? I want to be sure I'm not missing something. http://htmlpurifier.org/comparison.html KSES: + We have experience with it. - It's not maintained at all HTML Purifier: + It's actively maintained (and used by the Zend Framework) + It's OO PHP5 + It enforces standards compliant HTML - We have no experience with it. I'd go with an adapter class around HTML Purifier, then you are not tied to a given framework and when there is a new hotness it can be swapped out. Or, can the GL2 Framework support completely plugin driven purification? Cheers, Mike _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mark at the-howards.net Fri Apr 25 13:13:17 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:13:17 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES In-Reply-To: <890983.41575.qm@web706.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <890983.41575.qm@web706.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0fda01c8a6f7$a849a230$f8dce690$@net> Apologies if this is already a known issue, I just happened to notice this on bugtraq earlier this month: http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2008/Apr/0028.html Is 1.4.1 vulnerable? Note that the solution recommends htmlpurifier in 'kses compatibility mode', there are a couple of wrappers: http://htmlpurifier.org/svnroot/htmlpurifier/trunk/library/HTMLPurifier.kses .php http://www.bioinformatics.org/phplabware/internal_utilities/htmLawed/index.p hp -m -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Tony Bibbs Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:50 AM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] KSES Yeah, took a look at what you sent and the site you gave did mention a few other noteable CMS type things that use it (one of my other points). That with what you sent below and I think I'm convinced. My biggest gripe was that KSES is a single file...HTML Purifier is a true library with lots of files but they do a "stand alone" version which puts as much of the features into as few files as possible. Thanks, Michael. --Tony ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Jervis To: Geeklog Development Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:38:40 AM Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] KSES On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Tony Bibbs wrote: > The notion of whitelisting is an approach I like for this sort of stuff... HTML Purifier is a white-list based approach. > The library is a single class file so it hardly constitutes a "project". Semantics! KSES is not maintained, so the GL/GL2 projects would have to maintain our own version. And fix all security issues. HTML Purifier is an active project and used by the Zend Framework, so will continue to be maintained for a long time and actively developed to protect against new and evolving attack vectors. > Anything we'd do with HTML Purifier would include a class to use it, right? HTML Purifier is an Object Oriented PHP5 solution. (They have a PHP4 port too). > So one file (KSES) or multiple files (KSES replacement class that uses HTML Purifier + all > the HTML Purifier files). HTML Purifier ships with a drop in replacement function for the original procedural distro that replaces calls to kses() with marshalling of HTML Purifier. Might be trivial to replace the GL1 KSES (class) approach with a wrapper to HTML Purifier. > Am I missing something? I want to be sure I'm not missing something. http://htmlpurifier.org/comparison.html KSES: + We have experience with it. - It's not maintained at all HTML Purifier: + It's actively maintained (and used by the Zend Framework) + It's OO PHP5 + It enforces standards compliant HTML - We have no experience with it. I'd go with an adapter class around HTML Purifier, then you are not tied to a given framework and when there is a new hotness it can be swapped out. Or, can the GL2 Framework support completely plugin driven purification? Cheers, Mike _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel From mark at the-howards.net Sat Apr 26 11:52:49 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:52:49 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES Vulnerability in 1.4.1/1.40sr6 In-Reply-To: <0fda01c8a6f7$a849a230$f8dce690$@net> References: <890983.41575.qm@web706.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0fda01c8a6f7$a849a230$f8dce690$@net> Message-ID: <126a01c8a7b5$94c02a40$be407ec0$@net> Tap .. tap.. is this thing on? :^) OK, so I have confirmed, this can be exploited in the KSES class included with 1.4.1. I know your instructions ask that an exploit be included; however it is not my practice to share exploits of my own creation. The advisory lists a few examples: http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2008/Apr/0028.html Here is the quick-fix, implemented in the class as recommended in the advisory, and it seems to work (my exploit now fails) but would appreciate it if others could test/validate. http://the-howards.net/kses.class.zip Note that this fix only prevents PHP code execution when kses is called without previous entities normalization and also bypass of protocol check, it does not deal with XSS attacks originating from exploits via CSS style directives, eg: (Firefox) test Only a more robust/supported solution such as HTMLpurifier would represent a best-effort fix for such a thing. Still, perhaps this merits a notification/fixpack containing the quick-fix to 1.4.1 users, you don't have to say it's a complete solution. If I get real ambitious over the weekend, I'll have a crack at modifying the kses class to utilize the htmlpurifier wrapper, thus making it a comprehensive drop-in fix for 1.4.1, while also permitting direct use of the HTMLpurifier class for new code. In case someone else has more time than I, here is the link to the wrapper again: http://htmlpurifier.org/svnroot/htmlpurifier/trunk/library/HTMLPurifier.kses .php My good deed for the day. -m From mark at the-howards.net Sat Apr 26 12:29:35 2008 From: mark at the-howards.net (Mark Howard) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:29:35 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] modifying lib-common.php Message-ID: <128501c8a7ba$b79fadb0$26df0910$@net> I am working on something that, like other add-ons for GL, require lib-common.php to be edited/modified as a part of installation. Is there are more graceful way to do this? -m -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devel at portalparts.com Sat Apr 26 12:42:19 2008 From: devel at portalparts.com (Blaine Lang) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:42:19 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] modifying lib-common.php In-Reply-To: <128501c8a7ba$b79fadb0$26df0910$@net> References: <128501c8a7ba$b79fadb0$26df0910$@net> Message-ID: Hi Howard, Can you explain more about what you need to modify and why? Most customizations can be done via the plugin API's and lib-custom.php Blaine Mark Howard wrote: > > I am working on something that, like other add-ons for GL, require > lib-common.php to be edited/modified as a part of installation. > > > > Is there are more graceful way to do this? > > > > -m > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From mjervis at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 02:46:09 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:46:09 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] KSES Vulnerability in 1.4.1/1.40sr6 In-Reply-To: <126a01c8a7b5$94c02a40$be407ec0$@net> References: <890983.41575.qm@web706.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0fda01c8a6f7$a849a230$f8dce690$@net> <126a01c8a7b5$94c02a40$be407ec0$@net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804262346v32ec8762yc8ce9cdf7211ec78@mail.gmail.com> > OK, so I have confirmed, this can be exploited in the KSES class included > with 1.4.1. Yes, the KSES class we ship is vulnerable, however, we have been unable to find a vulnerability in Geeklog. Our use of KSES adds layers on top, and pushing the first two examples through the story submission, link submission, comment submission etc shows that Geeklog itself is already hardened against them. The style based attack is not protected against by KSES, however, Geeklog ships without the style attribute on the HTML whitelist and we advise against letting anyone use that. > Here is the quick-fix, implemented in the class as recommended in the > advisory, and it seems to work (my exploit now fails) but would appreciate > it if others could test/validate. > > http://the-howards.net/kses.class.zip When I set up a harness to test our KSES class, I found the fix did not work with the first attack published (the PHP execution one). If you could submit sample exploits to the security list (which is a closed private list) so we can re-validate our findings, that would be great. Cheers, Mike -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From mjervis at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 14:45:17 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:45:17 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Feed handling of Danish Message-ID: <7b42e7470804281145m4bc6282fw33ed474f4b94f541@mail.gmail.com> Dirk, Checking back in on this: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=82353 I'm confused! In 1.611 of lib-common.php you committed support for UTF-8 feeds. COM_rdfimport checks the charset of a Geeklog instance: $charset = COM_getCharset(); // format articles for display $readmax = min($maxheadlines, count($feed->articles)); for ($i = 0; $i < $readmax; $i++) { if (empty($feed->articles[$i]['title'])) { $feed->articles[$i]['title'] = $LANG21[61]; } if ($charset == 'utf-8') { $title = $feed->articles[$i]['title']; } else { $title = utf8_decode($feed->articles[$i]['title']); } So, we get the charset of a Geeklog instance,and if it's UTF-8 we do nothing to the title, if it's not, we utf8_decode the title. The feed in question is iso-8859-1 and my Geeklog instance is iso-8859-1. So in this case we're UTF8 decoding something that isn't UTF-8 and loosing the special characters. I believe the correct option is to utf8_decode if and only if the feed is UTF-8 and the site is not. But I'm confused due to the deliberate implementation of this logic. Opinions? -- Michael Jervis mjervis at gmail.com 504B03041400000008008F846431E3543A820800000006000000060000007765 62676F642B4F4D4ACF4F0100504B010214001400000008008F846431E3543A82 0800000006000000060000000000000000002000000000000000776562676F64 504B05060000000001000100340000002C0000000000 From dirk at haun-online.de Mon Apr 28 16:48:53 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:48:53 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Feed handling of Danish In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804281145m4bc6282fw33ed474f4b94f541@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b42e7470804281145m4bc6282fw33ed474f4b94f541@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080428204853.1474869237@smtp.haun-online.de> Michael Jervis wrote: >In 1.611 of lib-common.php you committed support for UTF-8 feeds. The checkin comment mentions feature request #631, which in turn points to The feature request was effectively "this sounds sensible and it should be implemented". Which is what I did. Apparently without thinking about it too much ... >So, we get the charset of a Geeklog instance,and if it's UTF-8 we do >nothing to the title, if it's not, we utf8_decode the title. Looking at it in isolation, this seems (or seemed, at the time) to make perfect sense. >I believe the correct option is to utf8_decode if and only if the feed >is UTF-8 and the site is not. Yep, the check if the feed is using UTF-8 is clearly missing. So yes, mea culpa. Should have spotted that at the time. bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://geeklog.info/ From dirk at haun-online.de Tue Apr 29 03:31:23 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:31:23 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] "I can see your house from here!" Message-ID: <20080429093123.r1i293xu74gs40gg@webmail.df.eu> If you go to you can now see the locations of some of our GSoC mentors and students (not all of which decided to make their location public, which is perfectly okay of course). Note that you have to zoom in a bit to be able to click on some of the markers (green: mentors, red: students). That's especially true for the one lone marker in India - which, on closer inspection, turns out to be two markers on top of each other. Aman and Dhairya, did you know that you two lived that close together? bye, Dirk From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:58:55 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:58:55 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] "I can see your house from here!" In-Reply-To: <20080429093123.r1i293xu74gs40gg@webmail.df.eu> References: <20080429093123.r1i293xu74gs40gg@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804290058q41806f7cnb07f9e8e38f54ea5@mail.gmail.com> > you can now see the locations of some of our GSoC mentors and students (not > all of which decided to make their location public, which is perfectly okay > of course). Gotta Love Google! I see Michael and Justin are very close, who'd have guessed! ;-) Oh and is that a graveyard you live in Justin? Also interesting to see the difference in zoom you can achieve in Satellite view in the UK/US vs Germany. And who's Eric? Mike From WebSiteMaster at cogeco.net Tue Apr 29 13:43:10 2008 From: WebSiteMaster at cogeco.net (Web Site Master) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:43:10 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] "I can see your house from here!" In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804290058q41806f7cnb07f9e8e38f54ea5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080429093123.r1i293xu74gs40gg@webmail.df.eu> <7b42e7470804290058q41806f7cnb07f9e8e38f54ea5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010a01c8aa20$7e3447d0$7a9cd770$@net> Mike, I was just checking out the satellite zoom for UK (it's about the same as in Canada's major cities). It looks like Google has you living in a white Panel Truck! ;-) Tom -----Original Message----- From: geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net [mailto:geeklog-devel-bounces at lists.geeklog.net] On Behalf Of Michael Jervis Sent: April-29-08 3:59 AM To: Geeklog Development Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] "I can see your house from here!" > you can now see the locations of some of our GSoC mentors and students (not > all of which decided to make their location public, which is perfectly okay > of course). Gotta Love Google! I see Michael and Justin are very close, who'd have guessed! ;-) Oh and is that a graveyard you live in Justin? Also interesting to see the difference in zoom you can achieve in Satellite view in the UK/US vs Germany. And who's Eric? Mike _______________________________________________ geeklog-devel mailing list geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel __________ NOD32 3062 (20080429) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From dirk at haun-online.de Tue Apr 29 14:01:31 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:01:31 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] "I can see your house from here!" In-Reply-To: <7b42e7470804290058q41806f7cnb07f9e8e38f54ea5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080429093123.r1i293xu74gs40gg@webmail.df.eu> <7b42e7470804290058q41806f7cnb07f9e8e38f54ea5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080429180131.133554988@smtp.haun-online.de> Michael Jervis wrote: >Oh and is that a graveyard you live in Justin? Planning ahead? Or a subliminal message: "This GSoC is killing me!" ;-) >And who's Eric? Our potential fifth mentor for GL1, a colleague of Blaine and Randy. Couldn't figure out how to remove him from the webapp without risking him being blocked from mentoring on future GSoCs. bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From mjervis at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 14:41:38 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:41:38 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] "I can see your house from here!" In-Reply-To: <010a01c8aa20$7e3447d0$7a9cd770$@net> References: <20080429093123.r1i293xu74gs40gg@webmail.df.eu> <7b42e7470804290058q41806f7cnb07f9e8e38f54ea5@mail.gmail.com> <010a01c8aa20$7e3447d0$7a9cd770$@net> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804291141s1418e29bud79522263da95f1e@mail.gmail.com> > I was just checking out the satellite zoom for UK (it's about the same as in > Canada's major cities). It looks like Google has you living in a white Panel > Truck! ;-) Ahyeah looks like I wasn't very accurate! Now adjusted, I live just up the road from the white van in the tiny houses ;-) From dirk at haun-online.de Tue Apr 29 16:08:43 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:08:43 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] LDAP module: Where to put the config? Message-ID: <20080429200843.1387449522@smtp.haun-online.de> I've got the OK (and the code) from Jessica to add the LDAP module to Geeklog. Thanks, MTV! Now, before I do that, one quick question: The LDAP module uses a config and language files - a first for remote auth modules. Where do we put those? Currently, they are in plugins/ldap - even though the module is _not_ a plugin. So maybe that's not the best place? But then again - where else to put them? The only other place I could think of is a system/classes/authentication/ ldap directory. That looks a bit buried (add a /language for the language files!) but would be the most logical place. Opinions? bye, Dirk -- http://www.geeklog.net/ http://geeklog.info/ From trinity93 at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 16:42:12 2008 From: trinity93 at gmail.com (Trinity) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:42:12 -0500 Subject: [geeklog-devel] LDAP module: Where to put the config? In-Reply-To: <20080429200843.1387449522@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080429200843.1387449522@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: add a directory called modules that holds stuff for each module. perhaps its time to start a new standard On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Dirk Haun wrote: > I've got the OK (and the code) from Jessica to add the LDAP module to > Geeklog. Thanks, MTV! > > Now, before I do that, one quick question: The LDAP module uses a config > and language files - a first for remote auth modules. Where do we put those? > > Currently, they are in plugins/ldap - even though the module is _not_ a > plugin. So maybe that's not the best place? But then again - where else > to put them? > > The only other place I could think of is a system/classes/authentication/ > ldap directory. That looks a bit buried (add a /language for the > language files!) but would be the most logical place. > > Opinions? > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.geeklog.net/ > http://geeklog.info/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > From vfuria at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 17:25:16 2008 From: vfuria at gmail.com (Vincent Furia) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:25:16 -0600 Subject: [geeklog-devel] LDAP module: Where to put the config? In-Reply-To: <20080429200843.1387449522@smtp.haun-online.de> References: <20080429200843.1387449522@smtp.haun-online.de> Message-ID: <8319e2d60804291425r326f1e6fk83f365323772f5d1@mail.gmail.com> Language files in system/classes/authentication makes a lot of sense. Is there a way of extending the configuration gui to include configuration for the authentication module? -Vinny On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Dirk Haun wrote: > I've got the OK (and the code) from Jessica to add the LDAP module to > Geeklog. Thanks, MTV! > > Now, before I do that, one quick question: The LDAP module uses a config > and language files - a first for remote auth modules. Where do we put those? > > Currently, they are in plugins/ldap - even though the module is _not_ a > plugin. So maybe that's not the best place? But then again - where else > to put them? > > The only other place I could think of is a system/classes/authentication/ > ldap directory. That looks a bit buried (add a /language for the > language files!) but would be the most logical place. > > Opinions? > > bye, Dirk > > > -- > http://www.geeklog.net/ > http://geeklog.info/ > > _______________________________________________ > geeklog-devel mailing list > geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net > http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel > > From joe at ThrowingDice.com Tue Apr 29 18:07:19 2008 From: joe at ThrowingDice.com (Joe Mucchiello) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:07:19 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] LDAP module: Where to put the config? In-Reply-To: <8319e2d60804291425r326f1e6fk83f365323772f5d1@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20080429200843.1387449522@smtp.haun-online.de> <8319e2d60804291425r326f1e6fk83f365323772f5d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0K0300780XG22WZ0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Perhaps it should be a real plugin. If not, then why are these language settings more "special" than the story language settings? Either it is part of Geeklog or it isn't. So either merge them into the standard language files or turn it into a plugin. OTOH, Trinity's idea is also good if it also gets used for stuff like Blaine's lib-portalparts.php. At 05:25 PM 4/29/2008, Vincent Furia wrote: >Language files in system/classes/authentication makes a lot of sense. >Is there a way of extending the configuration gui to include >configuration for the authentication module? > >-Vinny > >On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Dirk Haun wrote: > > Now, before I do that, one quick question: The LDAP module uses a config > > and language files - a first for remote auth modules. Where do > we put those? ---- Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com From dirk at haun-online.de Tue Apr 29 15:00:52 2008 From: dirk at haun-online.de (Dirk Haun) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:00:52 +0200 Subject: [geeklog-devel] Updating language files Message-ID: <20080429190052.1576214611@smtp.haun-online.de> Those of you following the CVS commits may have seen me working on that script I use to update the Geeklog language files. I actually wrote this years ago to copy texts that were added to the English language file over to the translations. That way, you would have at least have an English text there. Over the last couple of days, I have now finally changed it so that it can also update plugin language files. And so it's no longer restricted to Geeklog's core code but may also be of interest to other plugin authors. I've translated the occasional plugin language file over the years and was always somewhat frustrated when there was an update and the author had added new texts all over the place. It can be a real pain to track all those changes down and on more than one occasion, I actually found it easier to just start over fresh. Maybe plugin authors could consider using this to make the translator's lives a little bit easier? The tool is still crude, but it does what it's supposed to do: php lm.php language-file [module-name] > new-language-file e.g. php lm.php spanish.php calendar > spanish-updated.php So the "module-name", if not empty, refers to the plugin and it expects an include file of that name in the include directory that tells it what to do. The lm.php (can't even remember what the 'm' stands for - "merge", probably) provides functions to merge the arrays from english.php and the specified language file and also takes care of variables, proper quoting, etc. Have a look: bye, Dirk -- http://www.haun-online.de/ http://geeklog.info/ From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Wed Apr 30 08:30:01 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:30:01 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269D59@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> I was trying to do some testing last night on the mssql portion. I'm also getting the "INSERT INTO gl_vars (name, value) VALUES ('totalhits','0') ; select SCOPE_IDENTITY()" statement saying it was terminated. Wasn't sure if you were taking this one on Michael? There is another issue I found in the installer - when you have a path that has spaces in it, the installer fails right after you click on the "Install >>" button. -randy From mjervis at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 09:24:31 2008 From: mjervis at gmail.com (Michael Jervis) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:24:31 +0100 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 In-Reply-To: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269D59@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> References: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269D59@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> Message-ID: <7b42e7470804300624m67ed968el24f69d10b6dfb4a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Randy Kolenko wrote: > I was trying to do some testing last night on the mssql portion. > I'm also getting the "INSERT INTO gl_vars (name, value) VALUES > ('totalhits','0') ; select SCOPE_IDENTITY()" statement saying it was > terminated. > > Wasn't sure if you were taking this one on Michael? That's the one. AS far as I can see name is not an identify field, though it does have a primary key, and 'totalhits' does not conflict with any values in that (empty) table. I'm bemused. > There is another issue I found in the installer - when you have a path > that has spaces in it, the installer fails right after you click on the > "Install >>" button. I've not seen that, but that wouldn't be MS SQL specific would it? From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Wed Apr 30 09:21:50 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:21:50 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269D5A@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> > > There is another issue I found in the installer - when you have a > > path that has spaces in it, the installer fails right > after you click > > on the "Install >>" button. > > I've not seen that, but that wouldn't be MS SQL specific Correct.. Not an mssql issue specifically... Was doing a brain dump to trap the issue this morning. From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Wed Apr 30 09:31:30 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F111EB0@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> > That's the one. > > AS far as I can see name is not an identify field, though it > does have a primary key, and 'totalhits' does not conflict > with any values in that (empty) table. I'm bemused. Ok -- this is the mssql db class trying to be "smart". Because its an insert the class assumes that there may be an identity value that may have to be returned. Sadly there's no identity column in the vars table. It has a PK, but no identity. Anyhow, I'll have to implement a check in the mssql class to ensure that it has an identity column prior to tacking on the Select Scope Identity() statement. From Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca Wed Apr 30 09:49:28 2008 From: Randy.Kolenko at nextide.ca (Randy Kolenko) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:49:28 -0400 Subject: [geeklog-devel] [geeklog-cvs]Geeklog-1.x/sqlmssql_tableanddata.php, 1.34, 1.35 Message-ID: <063B8B70CB9DA141B2FC1DB483561B9F269D5C@nex-pluto.nextide.ca> > Ok -- this is the mssql db class trying to be "smart". Looks like its not the mssql class' fault. It's an issue with the inserts that have happened before the particular vars table. Selecting a scope_identity following an insert on a table that has no identity column simply produces a NULL. Which is fine as you'd be ignoring that as a developer anyways. The issue is in the users insert around lines 1719-1726. They should include the new num_reminders field. Lines should look like: $_SQL[] = " set identity_insert {$_TABLES['users']} on INSERT INTO {$_TABLES['users']} (uid, username, fullname, passwd, email, homepage, sig, regdate, cookietimeout, theme, status,num_reminders) VALUES (1,'Anonymous','Anonymous','',NULL,NULL,'',getdate(),0,NULL,3,0) INSERT INTO {$_TABLES['users']} (uid, username, fullname, passwd, email, homepage, sig, regdate, cookietimeout, theme, status,num_reminders) VALUES (2,'Admin','Geeklog SuperUser','5f4dcc3b5aa765d61d8327deb882cf99','root at localhost','http://w ww.geeklog.net/','',getdate(),28800,NULL,3,0) set identity_insert {$_TABLES['users']} off ";